ARMbo(o)k news update

Having just sent out another newsletter to those who have expressed interest in the ARMbook (or, thanks to an accidental mistype earlier in the year, ARMbok, as it is known to its friends), I figured it was time to brief the ROOL forums on where we’re at.

We have a big pile of laptops in one of the stockroom here (well, the stockroom is full, so they spill over into the spare bedroom!), and have been shipping units since Wakefield. However, so far it has been rather low key, as the early adopters are all part of a beta program (and are aware of that). The feedback has been excellent though. Early reports allowed us to track down a couple of non-fatal bugs, so that was really helpful, and now users are reporting that they are using ARMbooks as their main machines, due to the convenience!

Generally, feedback has been really positive, and I quoted a few of the comments in the newsletter.

I’ve been really busy coding the accompanying software suite. Compared to previous projects which came with “a bit of” additional custom software, this project has LOTS. It’s been months of coding work. The good news is that I’ve really got fired up – it’s being a while since I’ve been coding like this (normally my time is spent on building computers, tech support, project management, email etc). The ideas are fizzing and I’m really enjoying it. The accompanying software suite now encompasses many aspects – from brightness to battery, power management to screensaver, security suite to keyboard handling and “Big Mode” to “on demand” config of ethernet. All wrapped up in one neat front end, and integrated with !Boot / !Configure.

As things stand, the laptop is fully-functional, with the following exceptions – no sound (although fingers-crossed you-know-who is having a look at that), no external-HDMI video out, no wifi.

We’ve refined the disc image to ensure the best experience software-wise, and tracked (and resolved) any software issues people have spotted. For example, Ovation Pro forcibly enables NumLock, which causes half of the keyboard to behave like a numeric keypad. A drop-on fix is provided on our download area.

The laptops are also 2-in-1 systems, and can easily boot into Linux as well as RISC OS. The Linux side (KDE Neon, but other flavours downloadable) includes FireFox, LibreOffice and wifi support, but is obviously less nippy than RISC OS ;)

I tested battery life – full drain took close to 15hr on a 1 year old unit. So, let’s round down to 14hr of light use, or maybe 10hr of more “normal” use. Interestingly, at 0% it still took nearly an hour before it turned off! Also, bearing in mind what I’ve read on some other threads about laptop batteries, it doesn’t seem to be a problem to hit 0% and let the power seep out. Plugging in at the mains restores functionality immediately, and a full charge takes about 90 mins or so (not timed).

Another battery mini-fact (again prompted by a question on the forum). Picking up a laptop that we’ve had in stock for two months (we received our big order first week of May), so probably about three months “out of factory”, powering on (without charge) shows 95/96% battery. This fits with my own experience with the test unit – power-off battery drain is minimal.

Price is 399ukp (inc VAT) for pre-orders, plus postage (subsidised slightly for pre-orders). “Pre-orders” will be for the next few months, probably until we’ve got a few more features in the OS. Note, this doesn’t include WiFi – that will be extra as/when we do it as part of the RISC OS Wifi implementation (likely in conjunction with ROOL). A USB-ethernet adapter is included free of charge with each unit, for convenience. Various accessories are available.

on where we’re at.

Stuck on the Wisley Interchange? ;-)

For example, Ovation Pro forcibly enables NumLock

Is it OvationPro itself or the keyboard helper module? If the module, I think it is similar (same?) as the one with Ovation, so I could maybe provide a patched version?
It’s… Kind of bad form… For an application… To force the state of a key like NumLock.

Various accessories are available.

And, as is often the case for RISC OS stuff: no link, no photos, no publicity pages, no detailed specification… Here, at least link to the order form, m’kay?

http://www.armini.co.uk/ARMbook.pdf

Thanks Rick :)

Didn’t know that Ovation had same issue! Yes, it was the keyboard module that David uses for Hearsay et al. He provided a “drop on” config file fix to stop it being a problem, which is what we’re issuing.

I’ll be ramping up the promotional items as we’re closer to the “proper” release. Will try to do better than usual. I don’t really like to link to ordering pages on ROOL forum, as that seems likely slightly overstepping the mark. I know I’m already advertising, but erm, it’s a case of where to draw the line. If I mostly stick to facts, I hope it avoids decending into the realm of the “male enhancement” adverts that appear (and are vigilantly removed) constantly!

I don’t need the HDMI, and even sound I can live without, but is there a chance of Wifi support in the proper release version?

Cheers

Garry

Like Garry, I wouldn’t need the HDMI* or sound – and even WiFi wouldn’t matter to me as long as RISCOS can access files downloaded by Firefox on Linux.

The order form mentions options of a 14" screen and 200GB storage – would the £499 price point reach those specs, and are they actually going to be available? What’s the resolution of the 14" screen? (An even bigger screen would interest me, if it was available…particularly if it has decent resolution.)

* No call to connect it to the big screen – there’s a Pi hooked up to that anyway.

Like Garry, I wouldn’t need the HDMI* or sound – and even WiFi wouldn’t matter to me as long as RISCOS can access files downloaded by Firefox on Linux.

The easiest way to do that would be to plug in (and forget about) a small (as in dimensional) FAT32 USB stick for transfers between the two OSes. I’m not aware of anything that would be able to read from EXT filesystems, so the built in eMMC would be difficult to access.

is there a chance of Wifi support in the proper release version?

My understanding from Andrew’s talk to WROCC in June is that wireless will not be ready for the initial release, and a USB Ethernet adaptor is supplied to enable networking.

It is anticipated that wireless networking will be released at a later stage, as a chargeable add-on. Given the amount of work this is likely to involve, it’s an understandable approach in that, to my mind, it allows the laptop to be released into the wild, and allows some recompense for the substantial development work needed for WIFI.

FAT32 USB stick for transfers between the two OSes

That idea rather makes me wonder whether a slot for a (High Endurance) SD card would be a good idea – I’d rather have an SD card in a slot than a USB stick, however small in dimension, sticking out of my “away from home” machine.

OK, sorry for the delay in replying – was away for a few days.

Firstly, any talk of 499ukp is out-of-date – the price (as announced at wakefield) is 399ukp now, (essentially a pre-order price, but we’re already shipping units), which will rise to (probably) 439 or 449ukp for “final release”. So, you can place an order now to secure your laptop at the lowest price, which is really quite affordable (at least in terms of RISC OS computer pricing). The base price includes 32GB of “ordinary” storage, but does not include shipping (which is being kept low too, for the time being).

WiFi will not be present in the 399/449 price. This is the reason we lowered the price. We decided to come in at the bottom of the pricing curve and then make wifi available as a chargeable extra if/when it is done. That way we’re not taking money for something until it is ready. This fits with our general philosophy of selling products based on what they do do, not what they might do.

Wifi can be worked around using various solutions (pifi, wispy, tplink nano-router thingy, or even a basic wifi-extender with ethernet port). Linux has access to the wifi, too, and runs firefox, which is handy when travelling.

A free network adapter is included with every laptop. The ARMbook software allows this to be activated “on the fly” as needed – no reboots required.

The only 14" units available (precisely two) have been reserved for people with medical needs. To be honest, the ~12" units that we’re doing for the bulk production are (by my reckoning) better build quality, so although I’d have liked to offer the choice, the reality is that we’re better off with one really nice product, which is basically what we’ve ended up with.

So far, almost everyone who has had one has written to say how much they enjoy it – quite unheard of, as vendors rarely get “thankyou” emails!

We have a large stock of laptops here (spare bedroom isn’t spare any more!) and they are shipping out. However, there is still no HDMI or sound.

Aemulor is “working but still in progress” from what Adrian tells me.

As for Wifi plans, it is certainly our intent to tackle it. Funding is there, it is just a case of finding the right people and mechanisms for making it happen. We’d obviously like to work with ROOL on this. Our only concern is priorities. We need to focus on the laptop and also on i.MX6 (see other thread about the large RISC OS deployment there) because that’ll be what funds it. My worry is that ROOL may want to focus on Pi, which doesn’t fund anything (and Pi Foundation have not proven supportive in terms of RISC OS). We would want to include Pi too, of course, but it can’t be the focus, as we have devices going out that require wifi, whereas it would be “nice to have” for Pi.

The main work for the last few months has focussed on the SDIO bus which is very important for all kinds of aspects of both storage and wifi. This needs to be really solid for work to progress, and it is rather different to previous implementations. We’ve worked with ROOL to extend the way SDIOdriver works so that different hardware platforms can work within the one framework.

Regarding linux files, I recommend a usb stick – no messing around trying to make partitions and potentially overwriting boot blocks etc. Sandisk offer ones which extend by no more than about 2-3mm so would fit in a case etc. You could look at other alternatives, but frankly, why mess around when this is such an easy/cheap solution? Otherwise, use a network drive or cloudfs or something.

Price-wise, I’m not marking storage up significantly, so Clive, you’d have plenty of change from 499ukp if you order now. Later on, I think it would still be possible (I’m factoring in delivery). For example, I just charged someone 20ukp less than Amazon for a 256GB high quality disc, although that was facilitated by fluctuating prices.

For example, I just charged someone 20ukp less than Amazon for a 256GB high quality disc, although that was facilitated by fluctuating prices.

Currently, 256 GB are at 60€ for quality stuff, 20 UKP less would be highly impressive. But I’ll only believe that if you quote the real price you asked for :-)

Please let me know where I can buy 256GB sandisk extreme plus/pro for 60 euro Steffen, if it works out, we’ll share the profits! ;) I suspect Amazon would like to know also, since today’s price is over 90 pounds.

Edit – also, for those worried about the screen size, remember that Big Mode may actually be clearer/bigger/sharper on the smaller screen than the standard res on the bigger screen. The extra clear text offered by the double-dots-per-inch of BigMode can be really helpful.

Please let me know where I can buy 256GB sandisk extreme plus/pro for 60 euro Steffen, if it works out, we’ll share the profits! ;) I suspect Amazon would like to know also, since today’s price is over 90 pounds.

Ah, but you didn’t specify a make and model of what you consider a “high quality disc”, so I chose one of my liking (and one which I use in a few PCs of mine without a single hiccup for years now, in a quite demanding environment). Samsung 860 Evo. Going by my experience with (micro)SD cards, I would tend to choose Samsung over SanDisk, but you never know if the dud ones were forgerys. Even SanDisk themselves can’t seem to identify them reliably.

That’s true, and the Samsung Endurance Pro’s are a favourite of mine for the laptops (but expensive). Sadly they top out at 128 GB.
Right now the “entry level” 32GB discs are Samsung evo’s, but I can’t guarantee that in future.
Samsung won’t guarantee beyond 5 years though (for what a guarantee is worth!). The Sandisk Extreme Plus/Pro discs have lifetime guarantee.
I’d like to imagine that if they have that kind of confidence in the product, maybe it is suitable for RISC OS use.

extend by no more than about 2-3mm

Ah now. That pretty much solves that!

Sadly, for me, a 12" screen, no matter what mode it’s using, just won’t cut it. You can’t get enough on screen. Even a really good 14" screen would be pushing it for me.

You’ve still not said what the screen resolution actually is (not where I’ve seen, anyway) – although at just 12" squeezing lots of pixels in doesn’t help a lot anyway, things just get too tiny.

Good luck, anyway – I hope your market is big enough!

Edit: that said, I’m not ruling it out, at some point it might make sense for me…very tempting, just not practical for the things I’m mostly doing at the moment.

It’s 1080p (1920 by 1080 pixels), Clive. That should be plenty “roomy” enough for a laptop screen, I think :) The larger screen laptops run at a lower resolution, hence why they’re better for people with eyesight difficulties. For everyone else, the 12" ones are better, and the panel is better – high quality IPS.

That said, it’s easy to find reasons not to back things like this. That’s been Acorn’s curse forever, really. I understand if you don’t want to support these projects, but really, the feedback so far has been so positive that you’re missing out. Remember that this kind of project is what makes everything else possible (eg. open source RISC OS etc) so I’d ask people to give some thought to things – the best way to support RISC OS is by embracing the products that all the developers produce.

Will it run to a higher resolution on an external monitor? That’s how I use most of my laptops unless I’m out and about.

Sadly, for me, a 12" screen, no matter what mode it’s using,

Perhaps the mindset to use is not to treat a laptop like a desktop machine. That’s what I did with my EeePC. When “portable”, it would be 1024×600 (which is a little cramped, yes) but when connected to the LCD it was 1440×900.
Besides I never found a big problem with the smaller screen size in portable mode as I’d be doing different things when in the car with it on my lap, then when sitting at my desk.

It’s 1080p

1920×1080 in a 12" panel? Whoo.

has been so positive that you’re missing out

Oh I don’t doubt that. I’ll definitely get one, when I win the lottery…

That said, this bears repeating with some emphasis:

Remember that this kind of project is what makes everything else possible

Graham – as I said above, right now the HDMI port isn’t active under RISC OS, so I can’t say. One of the early adopters installed his favourite Linux build and sent me a photo of it running an external display at I think 2560×1440. But I could be wrong on the res. I’d rather not promise anything because until functionality is available, it is always best to say “no, it can’t do it” and get a nice surprise later. So for now, “no it can’t”.

But, as I say, 1920×1080 is a pretty productive resolution if you needs a “desktop computer” level of real-estate. If you just want to type into an email or wordprocessor, then 180 dpi “big mode” is a lush alternative. And remember, you can flick between the two on the fly, depending on what you need. I’ve really tried to give people “best of both” :)

1920×1080 is a pretty productive resolution if you needs a “desktop computer” level of real-estate

Well…it was in the 1990s. I’m used to four times that number of pixels on my desktop nowadays. I obviously don’t expect that in a laptop and 1920×1080 is just about enough – but with my old eyes they need to be spread over a somewhat larger area. For some rather limited range of uses (from my point of view) it’d be okay, but not enough to justify that expense. At the moment.

That said, it’s easy to find reasons not to back things like this.

I’d love to be able to afford to back things like this even when they don’t meet my needs; unfortunately I need to watch the pennies too.

And, as is often the case for RISC OS stuff: no link, no photos, no publicity pages, no detailed specification… Here, at least link to the order form, m’kay?
=> Yes we are from Acorn don’t tell anyone we make marvelous computers with a nice OS ;-). Marketing is indeed not the best developed part in RISCOS country.

Yes we are from Acorn don’t tell anyone we make marvellous computers with a nice OS ;-). Marketing is indeed not the best developed part in RISCOS country.

I think Andrew is being so polite about not using the forum as an advertising platform that he;s shooting himself in the foot.

Perhaps it might be good if a page appeared round here that had links to various suppliers pages where the supplier might consider putting up a set of items they would sell, if they can bear to part with them…

I think Andrew is being so polite about not using the forum as an advertising platform that he;s shooting himself in the foot.

It might be a good – if a bit radical sounding for RISC OS world – idea to just start using the R-Comp homepage as an advertising platform. E.g. by updating it from its very retro Mosaic legacy style.

You can’t even go to armini.co.uk, only www.armini.co.uk works (at least for me). Having a domain that does not reflect the currently-to-be-advertised product, but an outdated no-longer-available product might also be a bad idea. Navigating the site always keeps a mystery around which products are still available and which are outdated. Text with strike-through to indicate “no longer available” might be a good idea if you have a site with historic value, but if you want to sell stuff…strange. And don’t even start to look at www.rcomp.co.uk. It does not know about that new product at all.

Yes we are from Acorn don’t tell anyone we make marvelous computers with a nice OS ;-).

There’s this RISCOSblog post which shows the specs of the ARMbook as well as a range of other RISC OS computers and laptops.

As the proud owner of all three at some point or other, I can safely say that, in my opinion, the ARMbook is the nicest laptop for RISC OS use. A much more integrated solution, decent supporting software, and the least garish!

Here’s a comparison chart for specs (textile permitting!):

E&OE

Thanks Andy – much appreciated.

I believe the publicity comments were already covered in my July 5th post above. Since we’re still 3-4 months from the formal “release” (at a rough guess) that post still stands.

Our contact details haven’t changed in 25 years (nor our website, bah-dum! [risc os comedian]) so hopefully anyone interested can find their way to contacting us. I don’t tend to put it all in forum posts because spammers like to dump such info, but Rick kindly linked things above.

As others have said, I prefer to keep ROOL-forum announcements factual, as ROOL don’t really appreciate advertising (it’s hard to strike the right balance of raising awareness without feeling like I might upset ROOL). Personally, I think Announcements forum also is not the right place for some of the more “off topic” posts in this thread. Those would be better in General or Aldershot?

As you all know, the fundamental problem is one of time. I don’t have the resources to pay for someone to do the promotional work needed. Whilst someone kindly mocked-up a new website for us, it didn’t degrade well in Netsurf, so for RISC OS users, it’d have been a problem (Wordpress is not RISC OS’ friend). I still feel like we need a site that works well in RISC OS browsers, since our customers are largely running RISC OS. Even if the result looks retro.

My money tends to be spent on programming and RISC OS development. I guess you have to think – what would you prefer I spent my savings on… RISC OS software/OS development, or advertising?

because spammers like to dump such info,

One could argue that relevant advertising of a product of interest to the community hardly counts as spam. After all, what is an “announcement” if not promoting something? I mean, nobody posted an announcement that Boris because PM because that’s not relevant to RISC OS ¹, but a new RISC OS laptop…is of interest.

as ROOL don’t really appreciate advertising

While I can understand that allowing all and anything could get out of control, one must take a moment to consider that such a device runs the operating system that all of this exists for. No hardware = no users = no point. You see?

Whilst someone kindly mocked-up a new website for us, it didn’t degrade well in Netsurf,

I take it they are not a RISC OS user.
[reads ahead]
Oh, they just made a template for WordPress.

For use with RISC OS, maybe something simpler would be better? Try https://textpattern.com/
Looks like you might need a PC/tablet/phone to edit/add content, but it appears to be mostly readable with RISC OS. A few quirks in the layout, but that can probably all be customised.

Even if the result looks retro.

You mean like RISC OS itself? It’s how mom knows I’m using RISC OS and not Windows or Linux – she says it’s old fashioned looking. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, mind…

There’s this RISCOSblog post

Ah, there we go. Don’t promote your own product, let other people blog about it. I see. Very Web3.0. I guess the RISC OS market was actually decades ahead of time. :-) :-) :-)

That said, the blog does say: “Details are a little limited as it stands”.

My money tends to be spent on programming and RISC OS development. I guess you have to think – what would you prefer I spent my savings on… RISC OS software/OS development, or advertising?

Or to put it another way… There’s a new machine coming. A forum post talks about it, and mentions prices. It doesn’t provide any links. No problems, it’s posted by the R-Comp guy so head over to R-Comp’s website and… oh.
Are people supposed to phone? You realise that a mere half an hour writing up a spec sheet in HTML and putting it on a website may ultimately solve more than half an hour’s worth of phone time on inquiries? [plus being of use to international people – some operators charge an arm and a leg for international calls]

Some advertising is a commercial necessity. It directs people to your product. It generates interest.

¹ And maybe everybody sane was too busy drinking to forget?