Cloverleaf Campaign is Live
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Paolo Fabio Zaino (28) 1855 posts |
@ Stefan The ZX Spectrum is one of the most sold micro computers in the history LOL definitely! :D I totally agree that only quality is NOT the main reason for success unfortunately :( Success seems always to be connected to the “right” mix at a given time of:
Well I would say it depends by the point of view, but yes for someone who wish to use an alternative platform (that is not Linux or BSD) as main desktop RISC OS definitely offers more than the ZX Spectrum Next, no question on that. But the ZX Spectrum Next is designed for a completely different purpose and market, which is why I do not think we should use the ZX Spectrum Next as a comparison with the Cloverleaf Project :) I baked for the Laptop because it makes a lot of sense to me to have RISC OS running on the same Laptop I use to code for my Linux projects. I can bring only one device with me and have both my favourite OS and development tools (hopefully on the same disk and just decide which one to boot when I start the laptop). That would make me more productive on coding on RISC OS as well as being able to carry RISC OS everywhere I go for personal life and work. So, once again all the best to Cloverleaf kickstarter :) |
Stefan Fröhling (7826) 167 posts |
@Chrish Hughes
Not yet, Thanks for kick my lazy ass ;-) |
Stefan Fröhling (7826) 167 posts |
Why the bq. +"space" text + newline doesn’t work ? >:-( |
Clive Semmens (2335) 3276 posts |
Did you type Shift-Return instead of Return, by mistake? On the line before. |
Steve Pampling (1551) 8155 posts |
Textile is strange. Missing blank line: @Chrish Hughes @Chrish Hughes
Same text, but a blank line before the bq as well as the space after the dot. |
Braillynn (8510) 51 posts |
To everyone involved in the Kickstarter campaign, I am wishing you the best of luck and hope the project ends up being successful even if it can’t deliver on all of its promises. Feel free to send me any updates as well as any review software/review hardware, I’d be more than happy to talk about it. |
Stefan Fröhling (7826) 167 posts |
@Steve Pampling |
Daniel J (1557) 39 posts |
@Stefan
Please tell me where I’ve been abusive – I don’t believe I have and would be concerned if I had been as that would never be my intention.
Unfortunately won’t even be able to rely forever on what ARM will offer as AArch32 vanishes. Anyway, as you say, off topic. |
David Feugey (2125) 2709 posts |
Perhaps… perhaps not. Perhaps that some commercial software will be included…
Yes, no, perhaps. A lot of guys do this in the Linux world. Of course, they do not sell Open Source software “as is”. They add services, support, backporting, tools. And they make billions from this. I prefer free tools too. That’s why I use CentOS and not RedHat on my servers. But, for a critical project, I would certainly pay for RHEL support. And so perhaps even pay for some of my code used in their distribution. That’s the game of Open Source software and I have no problem with this, since Red Hat invests also a lot in Linux. If I want tomorrow to pack one of my commercial tools under RISC OS with RPCEmu and sell it for 499 €, I can. Thanks for that.
Absolutely.
A war where everyone fight for the same operating system (ROS5) is not a war, but competition. And if it’s fair, why not. A ROD/ROOL/ROL war would be terrible. Or someone that would capitalize on your job while trying to eject you from the game (remember Peter Naulls Unix Porting Project and our work at eQ?). Stefan is really not this kind of guy.
I hope they are not in the Linux community now :) Here it’s the pretty “Care Bears on Unicorn” world compared to some Linux forums. And you know what: I agree with them. It’s normal to fight for your position, normal to argue, normal to not always agree. What’s counting is the result (Linux community: “what’s counting is code”). |
Stefan Fröhling (7826) 167 posts |
Press release send out to Iconbar, Riscository, Acornusers.org, www.ans.org.uk |
Doug Webb (190) 1158 posts |
To be clear I wasn’t saying that but observing what I saw as some negative comments about the Kickstarter campaign from some. Now I accept that there is a fine line between critical/constructive/negative feedback and my hope is that we are on the constructive bit as we all want RISC OS to be improved and the Kickstarter campaign is a great way to get us to a new and wider audience. Equally us old hands need to be open to the fact that RISC OS may well change as new blood and ideas come in and there is nothing wrong with that as long as the spirt of what RISC OS is remains. |
David Feugey (2125) 2709 posts |
Yes, a classic :) |
Daniel J (1557) 39 posts |
:) – indeed. Although I think the difference here is we know Linux is free and if you want a well supported setup you pay for that enterprise support. That’s not really the case in this instance. |
Steve Pampling (1551) 8155 posts |
Well I recall the porting project, nothing else. So?? |
Doug Webb (190) 1158 posts |
Keep up at the back, yes you sir! Still remember those words bellowing out from our vocal Physics teacher and apt here :-) Kino2? springs to mind and a quick search shows up an article in Riscworld |
David Feugey (2125) 2709 posts |
That’s a valid point. We all know RISC OS is Open Source, but that’s not obvious for everyone. Perhaps an Open Source Logo in the kickstarter project would be nice. And, it will be a cool argument too.
Basically, there were some massive FUD campaign when we were launching our subscription campaign. With a lot of “easy to do with my code”. Problem: the libs (SDL, etc.) used by Peter and us was OUR code. We did not want to fragment the community, so we did not fight too long, wish him good luck and ditch the platform. Not really what I would call a fair competition. Today we have at least 4 free distributions of RISC OS and a few commercial one from RComp. No problem, no war, no false claim. Nota: thanks to André, Riscos.info and all the others, our work were not lost. But that’s a bit sad that so much Peter’s code is missing. The port of Firefox, for example, would be interesting to help porting Goanna based web browsers. |
Doug Webb (190) 1158 posts |
Also eQ in the ROL Newsletter 27. As has been reported in Foundation Risc User in the past there is a lot |
David Feugey (2125) 2709 posts |
I didn’t saw this. So Thanks! In fact, when the interview was made, we did already ditch the RISC OS platform, and Alexander did work on embedded Linux, with a core distribution that was a major step between the PDA and phones. “this version was compiled using the ARM Developer Suite” (about our RDP client) Nota: Was probably one of the last time Peter endorsed our work. And so, I wish a lot of luck to Stefan. |
Steve Pampling (1551) 8155 posts |
Annoying and amusing when someone else claims your work.
Hmm, I thought the Firefox port was accompanied by the information about the modifications to the basic Mozilla code that was free to download. |
Rick Murray (539) 13806 posts |
If you don’t mind me asking then… If Jeffrey is finishing his work on accessing and working with the other cores, why is it on your roadmap? I think what is the issue here is that there needs to be some (better?) clarity on what exactly are the… god, what’s the word… ah, “deliverables”. That’s the word.
But not really bringing RISC OS itself to multi-core behaviour. At least not yet. Will these cores be able to accept and run code written in C? Just asking, as I’m a little wary of getting too deep into assembler stuff again. We’ve already been bitten by that one, several times in fact. ;-)
A photo editor like PhotoDesk/PhotoShop, or a photo editor like you get on smartphones? My personal opinion here is that we could do with something that sits between Paint (way too basic) and PhotoDesk (way too complicated) for doing basic touch-ups such as fiddling with contrast, colour balance, straightening, and removing red-eye from flash. The sorts of day to day photo tweaks that may be necessary.
Yeah, I’m kind of looking forward to the idea of finally having GPU acceleration for video playback.
Quality? Seems to be a mostly unknown concept in computing/electronic gizmos these days. Witness… well… pretty much everything that claims to be “IoT”.
I don’t know how UniPrint works. I did have a play around trying to hack some rough (vague) AirPrint docs. It seems to be an odd sort of RLE bitmap. My inkjet correctly printed the supplied example (a strip about an inch or so long). I created some code that converted a sprite into a bitmap that the decoder program correctly decoded, but the printer wasn’t having any of it. In the end, after happily discovering that (completely undocumented and not even in the capabilities résumé) it will accept HP PCL, I just installed the LaserJet 5 (or was it LaserJet 6?) driver on RISC OS, set it to 600dpi, and then fart the output directly to the printer with RemotePrinterFS. Works flawlessly for the laser. The colour inkjet? That’s a lost cause. RISC OS doesn’t appear to have any support for the PCL3GUI or whatever it is that isn’t like the regular incarnations of PCL…
I’ve added some highlights to answer your question. ;) We’re quite fond of our language. It was apparently George Bernard Shaw who observed that we’re two countries separated by the same language.
I think it’s worth quoting James D, Nicoll here: The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary. With that in mind, it is also worth remembering Humpty Dumpty – When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less. Regional and country differences are like that on a grand scale. Americans, for example, put gas in their cars. And around Somerset, you might find words like “they” being used in odd ways. But now with non-gender-binary (is that the term?) people, they seem to refer to themselves using words like “they” and “them” as first person pronouns. More probably ought to to go to Aldershot, suffice to say that there is plenty of scope to misinterpret things, especially in a text based medium that is missing the sorts of social cues that happen in person to person dialogue (not that I’m any good with those, however!).
No, it’s correct. That their products run our preferred OS nicely is more lucky coincidence (and some of the people around here having ties with Broadcom) than anything that the Pi guys have done specifically for us. I do not imagine they would hesitate to bring out a 64 bit only board when the majority of stuff runs nicely in 64 bit. The fact that everything since the second iteration of the Pi2 is capable of running AArch64 (ARMv8) means that the various Unixen systems already have a head start. And when the 32 bit world is but a memory, there will be no further requirement for it. And it’ll probably be dropped about as quickly as the Acorn-friendly 26 bit world was dropped (that is to say, IFAICR no post-Acorn processor design supported it; it’s the ARM610, the 710, the 7500, the 800 maybe, and the various StrongARMs). But once Acorn was gone, so was likely any leverage they might have had, and so 26 bit was ditched as an anacronism of the past. That’s not to say we don’t already have some pretty powerful devices. The x6, the Pi4, the Ti. Plenty there to work with already!
So it’s a bad thing to want to better understand what exactly is going to be done by this project? I too wish them success, and god knows the platform needs some investment, we only have… oooh… about a quarter century of catching up to do.
Yeah, nobody has gotten sweary yet. Nobody has insulted the other person’s mother. This is all quite tame compared to some places.
Somewhere along the way, in recent years, this has become not the case. I was speaking to a “friend” on the phone the other day. He is a big believer in Boris and Brexit and seems to have sucked up all the Trump lies about rigged votes. I tried to stear away from that topic of discussion, but I suspect he just wanted to vent his frustrations. Especially the ones like “we can still retire to the Costa Del Sol, that hasn’t changed” (I spat my tea across the room and tried really hard to stifle laughing). After a few minutes of him ranting and me saying very little, it suddenly got very personal and abusive and then the phone was slammed down. But the point is, there are generally two sides to an argument, and anybody who isn’t on your side is a traitor scum who deserves to die, or so it seems. The idea of comprise, or even bothering to calmly explain your reasoning? Lost. Because it’s all so highly partisan or nothing at all. Yeah, I believe that it’s normal to not always agree. I also believe it’s normal to accept that there are some subjects that, with certain people, are best left unsaid (like how does one rationalise, for example, Christianity with Atheism? The simple answer is that you can’t, you have to instead accept this difference and hope they do likewise). Compromise and understanding is the way to go. Come on, this is basic relationship stuff. It just seems so often as if the rest of the world has forgotten a lot of this. Or maybe they want to get angry over stuff, because somehow getting angry makes them feel…… I dunno… I really don’t. I never felt that getting riled up made much difference to an outcome of something out of your control. I mean, I could get mighty miffed about Brexit, but none of that is going to change the outcome. Sadly.
Even better when that person is dumb enough to send your work back to you as examples of his work! :-) |
Stefano Bertinetti (2512) 21 posts |
For little retouch and straighten scanned document pages, I’m using IrfanView in Windows. Its Plugin system is very comprehensive. A similar tool would be ideal. |
Daniel J (1557) 39 posts |
It’s OK – having grown up here I speak both ;) |
andym (447) 472 posts |
I quite like the Photo tools in Xara. Now, if only Xara had some links to RISC OS in some way. Perhaps a programmer who works on both… |
Theo Markettos (89) 919 posts |
The patches are still in the source tree. However the problem is that Firefox is a moving target, that sits on top of a large tower of dependencies, all of which are also moving targets. Any time something changes, the build breaks. After a year or two, dozens of packages have broken, including Firefox itself. I think the only time it would successfully build is when Peter built it. And Firefox today is nothing like Firefox 15 years ago, so the patches are probably useless for any project today. Firefox depended on libraries like SDL 1.2 and ChoX11 which still exist (in the same tree), and are still useful for other things (although I haven’t built them for a while). |
Chris Gransden (337) 1202 posts |
At one point it did build. It even still runs on the Rpi 4. It’s not much use for anything. Most sites are a jumbled mess. It was years out of date when it was released being based on Firefox 2. The Mozilla CVS repository where the source code was held got shut down several years ago. |
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