Arc - !Store

Arc !Store
Is there a way of searching it via Android phone?

No. However, my very strong opinion is that there should be. Not by way of an app, but a web interface which would then also be usable on any platform with a web browser.

i.e. I think the website should itself present the catalogue of software to visitors, so that they can see what’s available, what it does, etc. That doesn’t mean setting up a means to purchase the paid for software, merely turning the website into a showcase of what !Store holds, displaying any screen shots included in the database, etc. (The option to download software directly if it’s free would also be sensible).

At the moment we’re almost¹ saying “We have some useful software easily available – you just get it via plingstore. Oh, but you can’t see it until you’ve installed RISC OS, so you’ll just have to trust me on that.”

A well thought out plingstore website would change that to “We have some useful software easily available – TAKE A LOOK AT IT ON PLINGSTORE – and if you like what you see, why not install RISC OS to try it out?”

¹ “Almost” because some of us do still use websites to showcase what we have (although some of us may have websites that badly need updating – including me). However – and I must stress I haven’t actually ‘counted’ this sort of thing, this is just a gut feeling – it seems to me that there’s an increase in ‘quiet’ announcements, with the software being put on !Store, and/or packaged. (At least with the latter, though, the software is visible from the web, even if it’s presented as fairly dry lists.)

The reason we don’t offer a web-based front end to !Store is because we were/are concerned that transactions should be from legit RISC OS systems. By making the software run on RISC OS, it ensures that anyone ordering will (generally speaking) be able to use the software they buy.

However, the site does have the capability to list software etc when a developer logs in, and one of the admin functions lists all software. I guess a read-only version of this could be done without a massive amount of work, depending upon what state the VPS is in at the moment (we’re still looking to migrate to a better-supported service).

However, the site does have the capability to list software etc when a developer logs in, and one of the admin functions lists all software. I guess a read-only version of this could be done without a massive amount of work, depending upon what state the VPS is in at the moment.

Sounds like the right move.

However – and I must stress I haven’t actually ‘counted’ this sort of thing, this is just a gut feeling – it seems to me that there’s an increase in ‘quiet’ announcements, with the software being put on !Store, and/or packaged.

I’ve been tracking releases of “PD” software since I started writing the Archive PD column sometime in the noughties, and still do as these days knowing what’s new helps fill up the odd half-page in The WROCC. I’ve certainly had a similar impression. I regularly go to log details of something that’s been updated, only to find that there have been many other releases since the last one posted to csa.announce or wherever (and often other new apps that the author hasn’t bothered to mention anywhere).

It doesn’t help that things announced here are now getting lost in the sheer volume of other stuff, either.

but a web interface which would then also be usable on any platform with a web browser.

+1

And please make sure the version number (and upload date?) is available somewhere, if only as a hidden comment within the HTML. This will permit a simple URLfetcher transaction to retrieve the page, scrape it, and report if there’s an update available (via Store, of course)

we were/are concerned that transactions should be from legit RISC OS systems

There’s a difference between listing software and supplying it.

Take a look at Google’s Play Store thingy. You can look at all of the programs, read comments, see similar, blah blah. But that little “Install” button doesn’t provide you with a file. It is linked into the Play app backend, so if you tap on Install using Firefox on a PC, the associated device will download and install the software in the usual manner.

Now, I’m not suggesting that you should go to all those lengths, just pointing out that having a store listing that doesn’t provide direct downloads is not unusual.

It doesn’t help that things announced here are now getting lost in the sheer volume of other stuff, either.

https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums/1/posts.rss

But note the irony of where this thread is happening… Colin, why did you pick Announcements for this topic, rather than somewhere like General or Community Support?

The reason we don’t offer a web-based front end to !Store is because we were/are concerned that transactions should be from legit RISC OS systems. By making the software run on RISC OS, it ensures that anyone ordering will (generally speaking) be able to use the software they buy.

Yes, that’s pretty much what you said when I raised this issue some years back at one of the after (or before) show evenings. That’s why, this time, I specifically said that it doesn’t need to include the ability to buy software. :)

However, the site does have the capability to list software etc when a developer logs in, and one of the admin functions lists all software. I guess a read-only version of this could be done without a massive amount of work,

I’ve just logged in to see what that looks like – and I refer you to how I described the web-visible packaged RISC OS software. I was thinking something more ambitious, TBH – so there’s a list of software, narrowed down by category (or developer), and clicking through gives the visitor a nicely presented page based on the full database entry.

However, as a logged in developer, the application name is a link to update the entry – if that is replaced with the URL for the user-facing site, then that would work just as well. As long as developers maintained their websites properly and the link is directly to the relevant page on their sites.

That might be where the idea falls down, however. And that’s before we consider what happens if a developer disappears and their domain is grabbed by someone else.

depending upon what state the VPS is in at the moment (we’re still looking to migrate to a better-supported service).

Hmm. I use the same hosting company for most of my domains without issues, but I use basic shared hosting.

That might be where the idea falls down, however. And that’s before

I vote we have something and then worry about the unusual cases.

+1 to Rick’s comment.
I do think a lot of people underestimate the number of RISC OS users out there who are ‘just users’ ¹, many of whom have never heard of !Store some not even of riscosopen.org!
This is based on the many people who come to us for spares or repairs. e.g. mice, PSU replacement etc.
I can’t put a figure on these RISC OS users but I can quantify one aspect of BBC 8 bit computers: Over the last few years well over 2,000 BBC 6 pin DIN to SCART cables have sold on ebay!

¹ Existing users are fertile markets for new RISC OS software & hardware.

I vote we have something and then worry about the unusual cases.

Pointing out where something might be flawed, of course, isn’t the same as saying “don’t do this thing because of these potential flaws”.

many of which have never heard of !Store some not even of riscosopen.org!

This does not surprise me in the slightest – and it’s why I made the remark about “‘quiet’ announcements”. I’d describe these as where someone releases something and either:

1. Don’t bother announcing it, and just upload it to a website (or Store, or packaging) until someone notices it and mentions it.

1. Only announces it in one or two obscure places; obscure being somewhere that many RISC OS users won’t see it – such as their own mailing list, one specific forum, etc

For the avoidance of doubt, the RISC OS Open website in this context counts as somewhere obscure – Chris’ comment is why. And that means ROOL themselves are part of the very same problem, posting their announcements only to their own news pages and nowhere else.

At the very least, send things to comp.sys.acorn.announce in addition to your own forums, lists, or websites. Ideally, send them to news@riscository.com as well (don’t try to get them to me via other means, because I may not see them – and don’t assume I’ll see them elsewhere and then ask at some point why I’ve not mentioned it!)

With Icon bar now more active, I guess they should go to their equivalent addresses as well (Mark, if you’re reading this, could you confirm if you want this?). And also Archive and Drag ’n Drop need to get announcements. (This entire paragraph applies to me, too!)

send things to comp.sys.acorn.announce

I gave up on Usenet a long time ago.

I also find it hard to believe that somebody might check, for example, Riscository but not think to pop over here once in a while. That’s what bookmarks are for, and both the announcement forum and news pages have RSS feeds (the news on is https://www.riscosopen.org/news/xml/atom/feed.xml).

For the avoidance of doubt, the RISC OS Open website in this context counts as somewhere obscure

As does comp.sys.acorn sadly. I’m not sure there is a non-obscure web presence.

My wife got a query from a CAMRA member we both know who is a long time Acorn user.
A rid-out had disposed of the Acorn CRT and a set of favourite games were unplayable.

R-Comp may get a call, similarly JASPP may well have an additional download.

Both sets of details readily available by queries in CSA and ROOL forums.

I’m not sure there is a non-obscure web presence.

Indeed. If the official website of the OS maintainers counts as obscure, we might as well just accept that we’re obscure…

For the avoidance of doubt, the RISC OS Open website in this context counts as somewhere obscure – Chris’ comment is why. And that means ROOL themselves are part of the very same problem, posting their announcements only to their own news pages and nowhere else.

What Rick says…

At the very least, send things to comp.sys.acorn.announce in addition to your own forums, lists, or websites. Ideally, send them to news@riscository.com as well (don’t try to get them to me via other means, because I may not see them – and don’t assume I’ll see them elsewhere and then ask at some point why I’ve not mentioned it!)

So that’s another two emails, which are — by necessity — in a different format to the post made here.

With Icon bar now more active, I guess they should go to their equivalent addresses as well (Mark, if you’re reading this, could you confirm if you want this?).

Announcements to TIB are via a web form, AFAIK, so that’s yet another format of announcement required.

And also Archive and Drag ’n Drop need to get announcements.

Why just Archive and Drag ’n Drop? Why not the other periodical publications?

But now we’re into more emails, presumably, and a need to meet publication deadlines. For example, I see that Archive is fishing for news this week. I hope that I’ll have news in the next couple of weeks, but not this week¹ — should I gamble on getting stuff released on time and send the mail in, or wait until it’s happened and then see a lag of a couple of months before the announcement goes to print (by which point it will probably be out of date and superseded by events)?

I do fear that there’s a lack of realism here. I do the announcements for the Wakefield Show, and covering the full set of places means me setting aside half a day to get each one done. Even announcing the WROCC meetings and newsletters to just the internal mailing list, csaa and here requires the content re-writing or formatting three times and three separate posts to be made — set aside at least half an hour, or in the case of a weekday, the whole evening for each piece of news.

For a software release, is that a good use of my time?

¹ Genuinely, I hope.

I gave up on Usenet a long time ago.

Fine – if you no longer access usenet, you probably can’t post directly to comp.sys.acorn.announce, that’s fair enough.

So post to it indirectly, by emailing your announcements instead.

I also find it hard to believe that somebody might check, for example, Riscository but not think to pop over here once in a while.

Note what Chris said. If people don’t know about a given place to check for news, they aren’t going to visit that place. Just because you – and probably everyone who reads this forum regularly (in which I’ll kindly include myself, even though I normally don’t do so frequently) – know about this forum, or that news site, or the other mailing list, don’t assume that everyone does.

Post your announcements as widely as possible.

Forums, unfortunately, do need to be handled individually, but for everywhere that takes email, it couldn’t be easier. I forget who I said it to now – probably more than one person – but when I was calling this type of foot-shooting WROCC Syndrome, I pointed out to someone that for those resources that accept news by email, you only need to send once: Set up a distribution list that includes the csaa email address, the RISCOSitory email address, and any other addresses that matter (i.e. the others I mentioned above). One single message can then cover them all.

If you use a mailing list for your software, whether you can include that in your distribution list might depend on your list settings – but with a little thought, it can probably be done. (I used to do it this way donkeys years ago, when I was a Pluto user).

As does comp.sys.acorn sadly. I’m not sure there is a non-obscure web presence.

Quite. That’s why you don’t rely on just one outlet – each and every one of them (RISCOSitory included¹) is obscure if taken on their own. That’s pretty much my point.

¹ You can tell RISCOSitory is obscure by the amount of stuff that gets included in snippets posts.

Set up a distribution list that includes the csaa email address, the RISCOSitory email address, and any other addresses that matter (i.e. the others I mentioned above). One single message can then cover them all.

I looked into this for WROCC and show announcements. For a bunch of reasons, it very quickly revealed itself to be a Very Bad Idea. However much it might superficially look as if one email will do them all, even a quick review of what one plans to send out will reveal this not to be the case. And in the time it takes to get a bodged wording that will work for all destinations, separate emails could have been sent.

Fine – if you no longer access usenet, you probably can’t post directly to comp.sys.acorn.announce, that’s fair enough.

Somewhere back in “the war” time many ISP’s decided that they were not going to host newsnet servers and nor were they going to shell out to a third party to provide a link through for their users.
No reduction in ISP cost, just drop the service. Alternates were usually web based and the RO browsers made a pigs ear of that and the paid newsnet server services were awkward for single users to deal with.
Many RO users simply “disappeared”, although they were still users. RPi activity and publicity for ROOL has brought a few of those in from the wilderness.

Which raises the point – perhaps most of these announcements should also be mailed to the RPi community

Fine – if you no longer access usenet, you probably can’t post directly to comp.sys.acorn.announce, that’s fair enough.
So post to it indirectly, by emailing your announcements instead.

I’ve just had a quick look at csaa submissions since 2016, and only approx. 25% of them are submitted via usenet, the majority are emailed in.

On the subject of csaa announcements, I do ask that people please allow time for the announcement to be read, approved and posted, so please don’t post that your User Group is meeting tomorrow! Strange as it may seem, I don’t spend 24hrs a day sat waiting for postings to come in so I can immediately approve them! The Charter suggests allowing 72hrs. If it took that long for me to approve a lot of postings, some User Groups might never get anyone attending!

Oh, and please use a spell checker on your announcements! I’m not a proof-reader and final editor for your postings!

I’ve just had a quick look at csaa submissions since 2016, and only approx. 25% of them are submitted via usenet, the majority are emailed in.

I use neither method. I just click ‘new item’ or whatever in Google groups.

I use neither method. I just click ‘new item’ or whatever in Google groups.

I just checked, and I think your last submission to csaa seems to have been in 2018, which was by email from MessengerPro!

That was a special case as a reply to the moderator who commented, by e-mail, on its content. I have just submitted an item for csa announce from google groups.

I have just submitted an item for csa announce from google groups.

Yes, that’s come though via Usenet to me.

Question about csa announce,
is it for Acorn only related systems or is it also for the 32bit only/RISC OS 5.x ?

I mean given that comp.sys.acorn has always acorn in it, I always assumed it was specific for Acorn systems (although if not strictly).

is it for Acorn only related systems or is it also for the 32bit only/RISC OS 5.x ?

The charter says “Acorn or RISC OS computers”, so I’d suggest that it’s good for anything from a System 1 through to a 4te¹.

¹ I think that’s the most recent named RISC OS system to have been launched.