Otter Browser

but attempting to run it on my Pandaboard freezes the machine.

Does the mouse still move? If so it’s probably creating the font cache. This can take a long time on slow media.

Machines I’ve successfully tested on,

Titanium
IGEPv5
Pandboard ES
RPi 2
RPi Zero
RPi 1 B 256MiB.
Beagleboard Xm
RPCEmu

I have now got Otter going on my Pandaboard ES, but it took ages to load, much longer than before. It use to take about 20 seconds, it now takes several minutes. It may be that it wasn’t freezing the computer (yes, the mouse moved the pointer, but you couldn’t do anything else), but that it was still loading. This last time, I went to the loo and found that the opening page was there when I got back.
I have discovered that !UnixFC and !UnixFont are being booted at startup, but I never set that. Those two entries show that the two copies being booted are in $.Apps.Fonts – there were copies elsewhere, e.g., in !Boot and RAM::RamDisc0 because I put them there.
Of course, the reason that there are copies in $.Apps.Font is because that’s where !Packman puts updates.
So one question is: How is it that these two entries in “Boot at startup” appeared?
Secondly, since it has been suggested that the fonts load faster if both !UnixFC and !UnixFont are in RAMDisc, the entries in “Boot at startup” should be removed and ensure that the system sees them only in RAMDisc along with the cache directory.

So one question is: How is it that these two entries in “Boot at startup” appeared?

Packman asks the system to look at UnixFC and UnixFont.
You can choose not to do this, at the end of the “Package configuration” Window linked to Otter.

I’ve installed Otter using PackMan, but clicking on the !Otter-browser icon in RISC_OS_SD.$.Apps.Network just locks up the machine. What next?

Be patient – it can take several minutes to start the first time. As noted earlier in the thread, putting UnixFont and UnixFC on a RAM disc will make it run significantly faster.

There’s an updated version of Otter browser available in PackMan. The spell checker is now enabled. en_GB spelling only at the moment.

Okay, just updated Otter, copied !UnixFont & !UnixFC from Apps.Font to the RamDisc, then click²ed Otter and…

..it booted up on my PandaRo Pro in 20 seconds! :o

 
Now, how do I make it do anything?

And why isn’t there an icon bar icon?

Now, how do I make it do anything?

If you’re looking at the Start window, you should see File, Edit, View, History, Bookmarks, Tools, Help along the top edge, Windows-style: go to Tools-Preferences and General options should be displayed. You can now control startup procedure by entering/selecting in the 2 Startup fields, including specifying your preferred Home/Search page. Tools-Preferences-Advanced-Content allows toggling javascript on or off – Otter is speedier without it (you can select it On for particular pages by right-clicking within the webpage and selecting Website Preferences-Scripting). The above should get you going: the main thing to grasp is that Otter, like the Firefox port to RO before it, works like a Windows app, not a RISC OS menu-able one.

And why isn’t there an icon bar icon?

See last sentence above :-)

Thanks, but can’t the Riscozzy stuff that gets Otter going put an icon on the icon bar? It would make it look like something was happening; plus it could display the version number, link to some better help info, and provide a quit function.

The latter should be possible, since clicking MENU on the RISC OS icon bar icon displays the Application Tasks window, where clicking MENU over “otter-browser” allows me to quit Otter.

 
Meanwhile, I’ve realised there’s no point in copying those font thingies to the RamDisc if the OS sees them first in Apps.Font so I wrote a little obey file to increase RamFFSize to 20Mb, do the copy, and then display the RamDisc’s filer window.

The result?

Otter now boots up on my PandaRo Pro in nine seconds, and it’s running so much faster that I can start browsing with only small delays.

Unfortunately, Otter suddenly stops browsing and (ironically) quits itself; probably because I’m doing something wrong, or your notes on setting preferences will help.

I wrote a little obey file to increase RamFFSize to 20Mb, do the copy, and then display the RamDisc’s filer window.

Neat! I use !Memphis, which achieves the same end.

The latter should be possible, since clicking MENU on the RISC OS icon bar icon displays the Application Tasks window, where clicking MENU over “otter-browser” allows me to quit Otter.

One for Chris G to answer, I guess. Peter Naulls’s Firefox port did indeed put an icon on the icon bar, but I think Peter had adapted it to the RISC OS way of doing things to some considerable extent. Personally I don’t find it a problem: it is such a boon to have available a genuinely javascript-capable browser that I am inclined to overlook the fact that Otter does not behave like a normal RO app. As to the random crashes you describe, Otter here (Pi 2, RC14 low-vector Zero-page) is reasonably stable. It is a heavy consumer of dynamic area capacity – Tasks is showing 190000k as I type this – and my suspicion is that crashes are more likely when this goes over 220000k or so (the Pi has 1GB RAM). Unfortunately quitting Otter does not liberate the dynamic area RAM, that requires a reboot. Maybe the high-vector Zero page version mitigates this.

Unfortunately quitting Otter does not liberate the dynamic area RAM, that requires a reboot.

I wrote, back in November in this thread:
The DebugTools module has a useful RemoveDA command.

*Help DebugTools
==> Help on keyword DebugTools
Module is: Debug Tools     1.19 (10 Aug 2015)

Commands provided:
X           Where       Vectors     Tickers     IRQDevices  Canonical
RMDie       RMRemove    PushDPopD   PWD         EvalHex     EvalBin
RMSave      SaveWorkspace           SaveDA      RemoveDA
*Help RemoveDA
==> Help on keyword RemoveDA
*RemoveDA will remove the first dynamic area found with a name matching that specified.
Syntax: *RemoveDA <area name>
*

http://www.phlamethrower.co.uk/misc2/debugtools.zip

Standard disclaimer – use wisely to only remove orphaned Otter DAs. This module is powerful and you don’t get a parachute…

I wrote, back in November in this thread:
The DebugTools module has a useful RemoveDA command.

Indeed you did – I hadn’t forgotten.

This module is powerful and you don’t get a parachute…

Yes, that was the bit that worried me: as an erstwhile glider pilot I’m generally in favour of parachutes, so I decided to stick with rebooting.

Yes, that was the bit that worried me:

It was a hint that you can remove Otter’s leftover dynamic areas by using *RemoveDA followed by the name given to the area…but don’t feel tempted to explore any of the other stuff.

Time for another crappy analogy – knives can be used to kill people, or to spread Branston on toast. ;-) The usefulness/dangers of a tool depends upon how you choose to use it.

The relevant ‘removeda’ commands are already in the !Run file. Otter browser always seems to crash on exit without removing the dynamics areas.

Thanks to a recent fix to Qt5Webkit by Lee Noar the Javascript JIT is more or less fully functional.
E.g. openstreetmap.org and Bing maps are fully working and reasonably fast on Titanium or IGEPv5.
Lots of other sites now display OK. It can still be quite slow on certain sites but much more stable with Javascript turned on.

Once tested a bit more, hopefully by tomorrow, test versions of Otter Browser and QupZilla will be available to download.

Excellent! I look forward to it. Glad you’re still working away improving RISC OS’s most capable browsers, Chris. Would it be too much to hope that the ‘removeda’ command is now functioning as it should?

Proper DVD resolution IS (720×486 @ 30fps for NTSC systems) and (720×576 @ 25fps for PAL systems), and if you want to get better DVD video quality, there’s the solution: http://www.videoconverterfactory.com/tips/dvd-upscaling.html

Having trouble with the browser. I installed the browser and merged the !Boot folder with my existing folder. I get the following message: SDFS::HardDisc0.$Apps.!Otter-browser: can’t load library ‘libWebKit1.so.1’ and it’s in the Shared Library folder.

can’t load library ‘libWebKit1.so.1

My installation of Otter Browser is working fine and that file is to be found in the directory Resources.!SharedLibs.lib.abi-2/0.vfp, in case that helps. AFAICR you can use PackMan to uninstall/reinstall OB, if the file is missing.

Otter suddenly stops browsing and (ironically) quits itself; probably because I’m doing something wrong, or your notes on setting preferences will help.

Nope, I never found the secret combination.

I got it working. Turns out to be user error. I had the latest resources file but was not using the latest version of Otter Browser.

For idiots like me, could somebody please put together an already set-up working Otter (together with an installer & little iconbar front end) that we just download, install, and run?

This would be an excellent earner for some worthy charity if sold on USB sticks at a show.

You’ve pretty much described OBrowser, put together by RISC OS Developments to raise funds. I think you currently have to contact RComp to buy a copy, unless it’s been put on !Store by now.

Has Otter been updated for ARMv7 yet? I note it’s still in the ARMv5 distribution list and hasn’t been updated since 17-Jul-16.

20s for starting a browser? lol..