Midlands User Group
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Chris Hall (132) 3559 posts |
At the Midlands User Group this afternoon, I will be demonstrating a Raspberry Pi model Zero, ARMX6 (kit, with PiFi), Titanium (DIY) and IGEPv5 (Rapido Ig) and talking about the differences between them. |
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Rick Murray (539) 13851 posts |
Can’t imagine memory would make a lot of difference on RISC OS, once you’re over the Otter-needs-a-half-gig-machine, since RISC OS is lightweight. I wonder if video support might factor into it as well? I’m surprised at how naff the OMAP’s video capabilities are, and one of the reasons I don’t use the Beagle more is that it really doesn’t like talking to my HDMI adaptor. The Pi, by comparison, is plug and play. |
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George T. Greenfield (154) 749 posts |
I think you’ve answered your own question – variations in architecture can and do make a significant difference in practice. Regarding Otter in particular, since the cost differential between a Pi and the top-end machines is of the order of 20:1, a key question is the extent to which Otter becomes smooth and usable on the latter. I am a big fan of the Otter port, which has done more to make RISC OS a viable day-in, day-out computing platform than almost any other recent software development, but you definitely need patience when running it on a Pi2 with JS on. If the Titanium/Rapido-1g machines offer a worthwhile Otter speed-up that alone would make me consider them. I can’t make this meeting but the comparison is certainly worthwhile IMHO. |
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Vince M Hudd (116) 534 posts |
Well, hopefully you’ll be able to see what Chris has to say for yourself on YouTube some point. I plan to attend and film the talk for this meeting, as well as MUG’s future meetings, subject to clashes with other commitments – and provided whoever is giving the talk is okay with it1. If I do record it, it won’t appear straight away – I think it’s worth leaving it a few weeks; long enough that seeing a recording doesn’t make attending meetings pointless, but soon enough that the subject doesn’t go out of date. IYSWIM. 1 There was some joking about this at the Bristol meeting on Wednesday, but Chris didn’t actually say yes or no at that point. So I’ll find out when I get there. :) |
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George T. Greenfield (154) 749 posts |
Excellent! And thanks. I’m glad Chris plans to demo both the Titanium and the Rapido-1g, as I’m intrigued to see if there is any material difference in their performance – the benchmarks [http://www.svrsig.org/HowFast.htm] suggest not. If so, the decision which to get will be difficult – support an important, long-standing dealer, or (arguably) the most significant native hardware development since the Iyonix? Funny how often, like buses, new RISC OS machines come along in twos (Riscstation/Mico, Iyonix/Omega, and now Titanium/Rapido-1g). |
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Steve Pampling (1551) 8172 posts |
I think that last counts as one and a bit rather than two. |
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David Pitt (102) 743 posts |
I bought a CJE Titanium, when it arrived an RPi3 was in use, my first thought on the Titanium was that it had the feel of a modern computer in terms of its speed or responsiveness in a way that the RPi3 didn’t. Otter was better on the Titanium than on the RPi3 but I do have to say real world browsing is done here with Safari on a Mac which is someway faster, but NetSurf does what it does well on the Titanium with the cache enabled, I had always thought of Netsurf on RISC OS as sluggish on the RPi3. Daily ROOL ROM beta builds are available for the Titanium so I can use those as I had previously done on the RPi’s, but that is, so far, not the case for the IPEGv5. I am glad I bought this CJE Titanium, it really is rather good, but is is not a “day-in day-out” machine here, it is a splendid hobby machine from which I am getting my money’s worth, but it does sit alongside an iMac and there is a Mac mini under the tele, they are the “day-in day-out” machines. |
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Elesar (2416) 73 posts |
You can achieve both in one hit, since CJE also sell the Rapido Ti for native hardware goodness built in sunny Brighton. |
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Steve Pampling (1551) 8172 posts |
Curiosity mode: |
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George T. Greenfield (154) 749 posts |
or sunny Worthing? And yes, I know about it! |
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Rick Murray (539) 13851 posts |
And a Pi Zero? ;-)
I can only imagine that there must be “issues” with how RISC OS multitasks and the restriction on only using a single core? How do these things feel on a Pi3? I ask – because a Pi2 is approximately the same specification as my last mobile phone, which did struggle a bit with Firefox but worked okay with the stock browser. My current phone is only marginally faster than the Pi3 (Firefox is much better), so there shouldn’t be a whole lot of difference; except for the slight issue that 1 core just isn’t going to get through as much work as four.
I wonder if a few days might be a better guess. There are plenty more reasons to turn up at a meeting other than talks, not to mention some of us simply cannot go. If there is discussion regarding issues raised at the talk, it’s perhaps better if all interested parties know what the discussion is about. :-)
Yes, it is strange. It’s like pitting two machines against each other – Celebrity Deathmatch style. As for the Omega… Hmmm… https://web.archive.org/web/20120316220856/http://www.drobe.co.uk/article.php?id=1395 Though, I think the funniest is possibly this: http://qubeserver.com/qube/systems/Omega.html Quote: The Iyonix? This, especially the last line, really tickles. Why? Well let’s start with the Omega not made by Acorn. Then we can say that according to the motherboard description it appears to be an ALi chip for I/O, a StrongARM, and two big-ass FPGAs programmed to “behave like an Acorn”. Possibly the only thing the Omega has in it that is more “Acorn” than an Iyonix is a StrongARM chip (which must have surely been showing its age by then?). |
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Chris Evans (457) 1614 posts |
Don’t worry about stocks of Titanium’s, we at CJE Micro’s have good stocks and I’m sure Elesar can change some of their Linux Titaniums into RISC OS Titaniums if necessary. AIUI it will take them about 30 seconds a board! |
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Elesar (2416) 73 posts |
Elesar’s shop shows the stock available for immediate despatch rather than all work-in-progress, so the stock levels tend to follow a sawtooth shape. Titanium stock is more complicated than, for example, its TRM since we have to make a forecast to account for the lead time of chips (up to 12 weeks) and other external influences such as large fluctuations in currency (most electronics is costed in dollars). The TRM on the other hand is printed in Slough so only needs 3 days’ notice to get more. |
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Vince M Hudd (116) 534 posts |
It might be – but it’s not going to happen. |
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Chris Hall (132) 3559 posts |
I put together a ‘bullet-point’ comparison for the talk which I include below (edited to include minor corrections, textile has added the blank lines):
† – inclusive of support scheme So there are three new machines at different prices: all three are available either as a bare
What do they have in common? SATA storage (either SCSIfs on ARMX6 or ADFS), How do you choose? My recommendation is to select one or more desktop machines Speed comparison benchmarks can be found here and some detailed comparisons here and in the June 2016 issue of WROCC. |
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Rick Murray (539) 13851 posts |
Raspberry Pi – £25ish?
Ovation != OvationPro. |
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Colin Ferris (399) 1818 posts |
Ovation Pi3/RGB safe :-) I presume all these machines – need a digital monitor. Would a RPC powersupply work with Ti etc? |
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Steffen Huber (91) 1953 posts |
Other things to keep in mind:
|
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Chris Evans (457) 1614 posts |
The Titanium is actually DTX. DTX cases are very thin on the ground but are available from: ‘We have it in stock’ n.b. Re pricing quoted by Chris Hall. CJE/4D prices quoted are inclusive of delivery. |
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Chris Hall (132) 3559 posts |
Other things to keep in mind: Good point Re pricing. CJE/4D prices quoted are inclusive of delivery.Noted (I got that info just too late to add to the flyer I took). I’ll add both these points to the info for Vince. Also R-Comp’s machines are inclusive of their support scheme. |
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Steffen Huber (91) 1953 posts |
The Elesar website disagrees with you: “Standard ATX form factor drops straight into standard chassis” |
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Jeffrey Lee (213) 6048 posts |
“ATX-compatible form factor” is probably more correct. The power connector, backplate position and mounting holes are compatible with ATX chassis, but it’s a smaller board so you have the option of using a smaller (i.e. DTX) chassis if you so desire. |
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Elesar (2416) 73 posts |
The Titanium is actually DTX. Yes, if you imagine them like table mats the hierarchy goes
Hence Titanium is ATX form factor compatible and fits any ATX case, or its form factor derivatives. |
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Rick Murray (539) 13851 posts |
Good to know, but Ovation is too simple to do anything complicated. :-)
I think so? That said there are fairly cheap HDMI to VGA adaptors.
I suppose you could wire the 5V to a micro USB, though it seems to me that such a thing wouldn’t necessarily be a power efficient way to do it… |
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Chris Evans (457) 1614 posts |
Not without extra DC:DC conversion. The Ti like most modern system uses 3.3V amongst other voltages! |
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