What are you doing with RISC OS?

Welcome back to RISC OS.

I’m trying to get the Pi 1 to almost take over so I can move away from my Windows machine a bit more …

I use RDPclient to connect to my Windows PC. The Windows box now runs headless with the power consuming video card (and all the others) removed. Having also replaced the noisy and power consuming hard discs with SSDs, the PC now runs almost silently on very little power!

The expensive monitor is connected to this Raspberry Pi, which also has an SSD.

First of all, welcome!

and have active cooling, probably one of the only Pi 1s that has :D

That’s pretty impressive from a Pi 1.

However, if the opportunity presents itself, try to pick up a later model.

I used a Pi 1 for ages, and then upgraded to an ARMv7 model Pi 2. It was notably faster, even with a mere 200MHz extra on the clock, because of architectural improvements. More recently I had to opportunity to upgrade to a 3B+ (photo), which offered a similar jump in responsiveness.

I now use the Pi 1 outside, with a dinky monitor and powered by battery (photo here, at the top) and the change between the two is really quite startling. For a start, NetSurf takes forever to do anything. ;)

So, the Pi 1 will serve you well. RISC OS is lightweight and efficient.
However, if you have the opportunity, a more recent Pi will serve you even better.

so I can move away from my Windows machine a bit more

That would be useful for your electricity bill. I recently discovered that my PC consumes almost as much as the Pi (which is on all the time) when it is switched off !
I now physically unplug the thing.

I’ve still yet to work out how to use the YouTube scrapper/ add-on to play YouTube videos

To be honest, I got a free sort of crappy but functional Android tablet when I took out a magazine subscription. I use that for YouTube, Netflix, etc.
A very friendly image editor (PhotoImpact) is about the only thing I still need the PC for. That and dumping the billions of photos that I take with my phone’s camera onto DVDs.

I’m guessing drivers is going to be an issue.

That’s always an issue, but if you’re a programmer and can read C, you might be able to find a solution in one of the many free Unix clones.
Alternatively, the manufacturer might be one of the few that still bother with publicly available data sheets?

Is it only for sorting out the receiving, or will the computer be acting as a DSP for processing the signals? I think that’s going to be the hard part.

However, if you have the opportunity, a more recent Pi will serve you even better.

Agreed.

The higher the Pi number, the better it will serve. But, very unfortunately, the Pi 4 in particular is more rare than rocking horse poo at the moment. But, I think, worth waiting for. The speed is fantastic.

Thanks Rick/Bryan.

I’m gonna try the back quote so may muck up! (-:

So, the Pi 1 will serve you well. RISC OS is lightweight and efficient.
However, if you have the opportunity, a more recent Pi will serve you even better.

I actually have a Pi 400 sitting next to it, there’s a few reasons why I use the Pi 1, again, I may be completely wrong as I’m fairly newbie. I heard some compatibility is broken with the newer arm architecture and it almost seemed a waste to have 3 cores sitting redundant on the CPU as Risc OS if I’m right doesn’t support multi core CPUs. Linux distros seam almost unusable on it now unless your running Jesse or something older, but the newer Linux versions run so sluggish, so almost seems a waste of a device, however RISC OS has definitely given it new life.

That would be useful for your electricity bill. I recently discovered that my PC consumes almost as much as the Pi (which is on all the time) when it is switched off !
I now physically unplug the thing.

Agreed, especially the electric prices in Northern Ireland where I am. Its definitely a low cost solution.

That’s always an issue, but if you’re a programmer and can read C, you might be able to find a solution in one of the many free Unix clones.
Alternatively, the manufacturer might be one of the few that still bother with publicly available data sheets?

No, I’m definitely no programmer. I would like to see if I could use GCCSDK but I think that’s well outta my scope at the minute :D

But thanks both for the help. I think I’l give it a go on the Pi 400 (at least to test), I’ve cloned my SD Card already so hopefully it show go straight onto the Pi 400 without any issues, not sure if anything would need changing, I brought ! SystemDisc so I’ve got the full 32gb capacity of the card at least.

(photo of setup so far)

Cheers guys.

Chris

But, very unfortunately, the Pi 4 in particular is more rare than rocking horse poo at the moment.

Ahem, we have some very nicely cased ones in stock! And we’re not scalping by charging extra during the shortage.

I heard some compatibility is broken with the newer arm architecture

Compatibility has been on and off broken ever since when.
There’s the obvious 26 bit (old Acorn) and 32 bit issue. Then there’s the unaligned loads issue. Then varying incarnations of ARMv7 tightened up “rubbish”, so things like loading a value into R10 from an address stored in R10 with writeback are now faulted for being the gibberish that it is. Then ARMv8 got rid of SWP (which, to be fair, had been deprecated for a long time).
You’ll still run into the odd problem, though I think most of that is due to the age of some of the software (like, how many different versions of Samba and WebJames are there?), but the machines have been around a while now so the major things work.

and it almost seemed a waste to have 3 cores sitting redundant on the CPU

True, but the one that RISC OS does use will perform so much better.

Trust me, it’s not a case of a slightly faster Pi, it’s like a whole different machine.
Part of that is due to the Pi1 using an ancient ARM11 (predating Cortex nomenclature) core.

but the newer Linux versions run so sluggish

I don’t think devices like the Pi have really been suitable for “desktop use” until recently. Linux isn’t a lightweight OS when you have all the UI stuff and browsers and whatnot.
Hell, even Android is like molasses in January on a low end quad core CPU with a gigabyte of RAM. I know, my tablet’s spec isn’t so different to the 3B+ and there’s a fair bit of poke the screen, go into the kitchen, put the kettle on, walk back, has anything happened yet? ;)

No, I’m definitely no programmer. I would like to see if I could use GCCSDK

If you’re not a programmer, might be best to stick with BASIC for things that need done.
C is great if you can “think like C”. But if you can’t, it’s like repeatedly bashing your head against the wall. Thankfully my intermediate step between BASIC (on a Beeb, then an A3000) and C was TurboPascal on an old PC. While TP isn’t like C, and is annoyingly fussy (well, it is Pascal), how it behaved prepared me for understanding how C behaves.

I think I’l give it a go on the Pi 400 (at least to test)

Test, huh?
Nah, you won’t be going back to the Pi 1. :)

Not only do RISCOSBits have a few Ri 4, so do R-Comp both Ahem will be available at the Wakefield Show on 21st May, Ahem again actually physically in Bradford this year.

Thanks Rick.

By the way, I think I saw some videos you did on Risc OS on YouTube when I was doing a bit of research and looking up things, if it was you?? Same name of the YouTube user. It if was you, Thanks!!!

Compatibility has been on and off broken ever since when

Yeah, I had a Risc PC many moons ago even that was hit and miss. Yeah I know about the whole 26 bit issues. running RO Direct with the Acorn mode is okay for that as far as I can tell.
I heard the Pi 1 was a near match to the Iyonix that came out in terms of Arm architecture. I always wanted a Iyonix put they were so expensive at the time.
I actually had the Pi 400 before I got a cheap second hand Pi 1 model b for the princely sum of £6.50 from ebay, new in box sealed for the sole purpose of exploring Risc OS again, lol (-: , Ive probably done it all backwards….should have just used the Rpi400…. lesson learnt (-:

If you’re not a programmer, might be best to stick with BASIC for things that need done.

Yeah, baby steps and all that, I know BASIC would do fine so I’m going to order a few books to help, any recommendations???… with GCCSDK I honestly thought at one point you could run and C/C+ Source code into GCCSDK and get Risc OS/Arm compatible programmes out, lol… Obviously I know now! (-;

Anyways, thanks for being such a friendly bunch.

Great to see such welcoming people.

haven’t got myself another Acorn RISC PC again yet

Don’t bother!

but found my Raspberry PI 1 model B does the job almost perfectly

It will serve you better than a Risc PC. If you want to play old games and find you can’t on the Pi, post here, because substantial work is going on to make games playable, and the people who are doing it need to know about demand, problems, etc.

In general: go forwards, not backwards!

I can confirm that like RISCOSBits, we (R-Comp Interactive) also have Pi4 boards in stock, but again reserved for complete machines. Right now we’re only able to source the 4GB models, so we’re offering those at no extra cost over the advertised prices, and haven’t increased prices either (despite having had to buy the odd one from scalpers on ebay).

Anyway, welcome back to the RISC OS Scene – enjoy! :)

Thanks Andrew/Dave.

Btw since I seen you on here Andrew, whens the !Pling store going to get any more games added? 😀

Have you tried stardot.org.uk

ie for old Arc games

I have. I’m signed up to StarDot forums & Jaspp is very good too. I’ld be probably more interested in the later years/i.e Risc PC games than the earlier Archimedes games, I’m trying to get Stratugus working at the minute with BOS Wars. I’d be probably interested in Descent II, Syndicate that sort of thing, and if I ever see if the Risc OS port of Quake 2.

I like RISC OS very much for its look & feel. I started to remember my BASIC skills; I used BASIC a long time ago, but I made programs only for Spectrum computers and for PCs. I also discovered I could use C and Python and I made some tests. I struggled a lot until I managed to get Romanian diacritics to work and now I can use it for writing stuff, too :) I love it and I hope for its continuing development. Now I’m using it on a Raspberry Pi 400 and on my PC, through RPCEmu.

Nice one, Dan. The more the merrier. :)

I have two Pi 1s. The first was bought new from CJE (along with a case) back at the SW show in (I think) 2014. I’ve got that one running RISC OS. Used it to pull a load of data off the hard disks that had been pulled from my RiscPC (which had a dead motherboard thanks to a leaking battery).

I also just picked up another one for a tenner. I’m intending to use that as a Teefax server, after some clever person figured out a way of getting a Pi to generate VBI teletext signals. This job doesn’t need the CPU power of even the Pi 2; it’ll work with a Pi Zero. Easier to use a Pi 1 though as it has Ethernet and also has a phono socket for composite video output. Shove that into an RF modulator (nicked from a scrap VCR so has RF pass-through as well) and I’ve got Teletext back.

Not just a “because I can” project. I have a couple of devices that need a Teletext signal to set their clocks. One of these is a top of the range (for 2002!) S-VHS VCR, which can only set the clock from the Teletext signal on preset 1, no manual setting is available.

Besides, it’s kinda fun. Not RISC OS I know, but Pi hardware, so close I guess.

So cool! There’s an SVHS machine in the attic, I might be getting back to you!

I was hesitant to resurrect the thread but since someone else already did, I’ll chip in :)

By the way very cool Glenn, teletext/Ceefax was always to me one of the coolest things us Americans never got.

I’m currently doing my first Wimp Toolbox app, using Rick Murray’s USB-MIDI module to make a MIDI monitor app. It might also have some virtual controller stuff too, but there are some input things I’m hung up on there so I haven’t decided if I’ll bundle that functionality yet. It’s currently functional on a basic level but I’m learning as I go in my spare time so it’ll still be a minute.

I’m currently doing my first Wimp Toolbox app, using Rick Murray’s USB-MIDI module to make a MIDI monitor app. It might also have some virtual controller stuff too, but there are some input things I’m hung up on there so I haven’t decided if I’ll bundle that functionality yet. It’s currently functional on a basic level but I’m learning as I go in my spare time so it’ll still be a minute.

That sounds great. It’s super-useful to have all this USB and MIDI development going on. Well it is to RISC OS musicians, anyway. All we need now is something that matches the score engraving of Sibelius7.

It’s super-useful to have all this USB and MIDI development going on.

Indeed. Happy to be a part of it too.

Well it is to RISC OS musicians, anyway.

Must be a really small number of those these days. I mean, if I had any talent and could get my head around notation, I’d be using MuseScore on a PC.

It’s great to have Rhapsody available, it’s so far ahead of Maestro that it’s not even a sensible comparison.
Unfortunately, it’s so far behind what’s available on other platforms <cough> such as VBRhapsody </cough>.
Kind of a familiar refrain around here, isn’t it? ;)

R4 is basic compared to the likes of MuseScore and Sib (plus others).
MelIDI is MIA.
Maestro is a toy.

My own SimpleSeq (clue in the name!) might have been something I could have flogged for a tenner…in 1990. These days, it’s more of a hobby than anything else. I’m releasing it for free in the hope that it might be something that could be used by others who prefer a note/time grid instead of traditional notation (a bit like a tracker editor BITD).

All we need now is something that matches the score engraving of Sibelius7.

I understand that correctly producing scores is important, especially for classical music, but I’d mostly like a music program that isn’t a pain in the arse to actually use. I have ideas in my head ¹ but getting them into a reproducible form is…tedious.

¹ Mostly lame ideas, mind you. I only did two and a bit years of general music at school (I got a ‘pass’ in GCSE level music, which says all you need to know about how crap the curriculum was in 1988-1990) so I haven’t exactly been trained in any sort of theory, it’s just random stuff I’ve picked up along the way, but don’t ask me about “mode” or “key”, to me it is simply notes (mostly the white ones) in a sequence.

Must be a really small number of those these days. I mean, if I had any talent and could get my head around notation, I’d be using MuseScore on a PC.

I use Dorico on a Mac, both of which are excellent. However, Dorico is becoming a beast because to sell upgrades it needs to have new features added all the time, and when you want to just write music to be performed by humans, Sibelius7 allows you to do just that without getting in the way with bells and whistles. Modern Sibelius now has so-called AI shoved in it, trying to do things for you. A composer wants to just compose, and if AI does half of the job, then you’re not really the composer, so this is pointless bloat which also raises ethical issues.

Kind of a familiar refrain around here, isn’t it? ;)

Well, it is, but the situation can be improved, if only gradually.

My own SimpleSeq (clue in the name!) might have been something I could have flogged for a tenner…in 1990. These days, it’s more of a hobby than anything else. I’m releasing it for free in the hope that it might be something that could be used by others who prefer a note/time grid instead of traditional notation (a bit like a tracker editor BITD).

I shall have to give that a go once I get a faster machine and I’m all set up properly (still on a Pi 2 so haven’t made RISC OS my main system yet). Thanks for making it available.

I understand that correctly producing scores is important, especially for classical music, but I’d mostly like a music program that isn’t a pain in the arse to actually use. I have ideas in my head 1 but getting them into a reproducible form is…tedious.

I’m trained in composition and score writing, and I’d love to work with a programmer on a scoring software project, either new or based on porting and tweaking something open source. However, as you’ll have seen in other threads, I am only just about to really have a go at learning to code, and so I’m in no position to implement such a project by myself, but I can help design the layout engine in terms of what the end result looks like, the GUI etc and I can test it as a user. I can also write documentation and do Web sites. It’s the coding that’s the issue for me.

The problem with modern scoring programs, as I alluded to above, is they try to also be a DAW. I would envisage a RISC OS scoring program to just do scoring and be able to export a MIDI file (that takes account of expressions) to be imported into a DAW or MIDI sequencer. Producing a recording is not the job of a score writing program.

The problem with RISC OS Rhapsody is it lacks even basic standards in its engraving engine such as collision protection (is that the right term?). Expressions can and do get put over notes, for example, and that’s not even suitable to give to a school orchestra.

Modern Sibelius now has so-called AI shoved in it

Everything has so-called AI shoved in itv these days.
Which might even be useful if it wasn’t for the fact that it generally has less brainpower than a cheeseburger.

I don’t fear an AI apocalypse. I fear an apocalypse because an AI was like “what does this button do?”.

which also raises ethical issues.

Especially given as how the main players behind all this smoke and mirrors are so damn protective of their IPR, but actually want legislation and rules changed to allow them to pillage everything in sight, ‘cos that’s better for business than having to pay to get the training data.

Consequently, it will be a cheeseburger that understands the collective wit of Reddit.
Refer to previous apocalypse comment.

if only gradually.

Thing is, the rest of the world’s improvements are outpacing ours by orders of magnitude. So we’re going to need some quantum time dilation in order to catch up.

still on a Pi 2

That’s what it’s being written on, I’m using the setup in the living room since it’s pleasant and not 4C.

is they try to also be a DAW

One box ticks all, huh?

Thing is, while there are those who would like it to do one thing well, there are others who would like it to do everything adequately.

is that the right term?

<shrug> We’ll just call it that until somebody complains. ;)

Expressions can and do get put over notes, for example,

That just sounds like a formatting issue, like “if something is here, don’t put something else there”.

Do you have any examples of what exactly you mean, by way of demonstration?

and that’s not even suitable to give to a school orchestra.

Ouch!

The school “band” (term used extremely loosely (far too small to be an orchestra)) back when I was at school would be happy to have music that wasn’t an off-centre photocopy made by a machine whose drum was twice beyond its useful service life.

In order to perform at a outing we did at a local Christmas market (god help them, we were terrible), I had the music teacher play my part. I couldn’t read the notation and she could read her own photocopies, so she winged it and I just remembered what she did. More or less. ;)

Everything has so-called AI shoved in itv these days.

Ain’t that the truth.

Which might even be useful if it wasn’t for the fact that it generally has less brainpower than a cheeseburger.

That ex-Google guy who quit to warn the world about AI certainly makes it sounds very scary indeed, mostly in terms of jobs.

Especially given as how the main players behind all this smoke and mirrors are so damn protective of their IPR, but actually want legislation and rules changed to allow them to pillage everything in sight, ‘cos that’s better for business than having to pay to get the training data.

There should be a clear, legal opt-in (not out) for stuff you’ve coded, written, drawn, composed or otherwise created to be used to train an AI model.

Consequently, it will be a cheeseburger that understands the collective wit of Reddit.
Refer to previous apocalypse comment.

It’s looking that way in some respects. It has been made to look both scarily capable and reassuringly limited so far.

Thing is, the rest of the world’s improvements are outpacing ours by orders of magnitude. So we’re going to need some quantum time dilation in order to catch up.

My own view is that a unique selling point (even though it’s now free) of RISC OS is simplicity and focus. No point trying to match Windows or Mac OS, or even Linux.

That’s what it’s being written on, I’m using the setup in the living room since it’s pleasant and not 4C.

I sometimes wonder if I actually need to upgrade. Web browsing seems a struggle sometimes, though, and I do tend to push my computers unintentionally.

One box ticks all, huh?

Thing is, while there are those who would like it to do one thing well, there are others who would like it to do everything adequately.

My thinking is since every other score writing program with a GUI now tries to do everything, not following suit would be a good move. Sick of bloated, jack-of-all-trades software? Just want to score in peace and quiet? Use this. Want a recording? Here’s the MIDI file for your DAW.

We’ll just call it that until somebody complains. ;)

Seems like a way forward!

That just sounds like a formatting issue, like “if something is here, don’t put something else there”.

Yes, indeed. Of course, it is complex in that it has to follow engraving convention, look professional and the spacing has to be right, not just non-collided. The best way is not for the user to draw on the expressions as in some programs, but for them to click on the note they want the expression to apply to or start at, and the engraving engine does the placing. This also avoids it looking right but actually being applied to a nearby note in terms of playback (also relevant as deleting that stave would inadvertently delete the expression and you might not notice).

Do you have any examples of what exactly you mean, by way of demonstration?

I do, sir, but I cannot see a way to attach a picture to my message.

It was expressions over each other, not notes, and over bar lines they shouldn’t be over in the particular example, I have just found out.

In order to perform at an outing we did at a local Christmas market (god help them, we were terrible), I had the music teacher play my part. I couldn’t read the notation and she could read her own photocopies, so she winged it and I just remembered what she did. More or less. ;)

Well legible printout would be a luxury after that, I suppose!

So we’re going to need some quantum time dilation

Super-small-mini-micro increments? Yep, I think we’re making that level of progress. Maybe something on the macro side might be better?

@Michael

The problem with RISC OS Rhapsody is it lacks even basic standards in its engraving engine such as collision protection (is that the right term?). Expressions can and do get put over notes, for example, and that’s not even suitable to give to a school orchestra.

Rhapsody4
Can you give an example?
I use Rhapsody a lot, for the school where I play violin, and I know a British Rhapsody user who uses it with children.
I could show you some scores, it’s very correct.

For expressions, they are positioned in a standard way and actually misplaced if the note is too high. To get around this problem, simply insert the expression with the bouron adjust. This is true for others: Shades, Text, etc.
To improve…
I recognize that Sibelius is more efficient, but unfortunately not available in 32 bit version and cannot be used on the desktop.