Wakefield Acorn & RISC OS Computer Show 2017

speaking of which back on thread less than a week to go to the show so why not go along and see what the ROOL epic announcement is all about and what part RISC OS Developments Ltd have to play in the future.

Love to, but I’m on-call¹ so rather confined to the local area.

¹ and rather hoping no more of the naff pipework leaks affecting UPS units in network closets which is affecting this weekend despite “not” being on-call.

I mean, 26 bit mode was an anachronism in the first printed ARM ARM, wasn’t the writing on the wall large enough to be read from a different county?

Maybe Acorn suffered from too much inside knowledge here? After StrongARM, DEC developed SA-2 (aka SA-1500) with a nice fast companion chip for media processing. This would have meant that switching to 32bit was not absolutely necessary, because back then ARMv5 implementations were a lot slower than StrongARM. So it would have bought Acorn a bit more time. Probably they hoped that it could be financed by the STB and NC business. After the DEC/Intel patent settlement, there were still rumours that Intel would continue SA-2 development, but ultimately concentrated on 32bit only XScale.

For ROL on the other hand…I agree with Steve that keeping the 26bit business made sense back then. However, not producing a HALified RISC OS as soon as possible was a mistake – there was StrongARM-based hardware with modern periphery available back then (DNARD/Shark, CATS, maybe even Psion Netbook) which would have been a nice and comparatively cheap upgrade path for Risc PC owners who were interested in Phoebe at that time.

Instead, we got ARM7500-based machines and waited for ages for the Omega because of the complexities of rebuilding IOMD and VIDC20 inside FPGAs. With the Kinetic upgrade as a rather expensive Risc PC upgrade path along with ViewFinder and the various 100MBit ethernet cards which were all hampered by the aging Risc PC base.

Looking back, when was the ideal point of time to switch to 32bit for Acorn? Maybe when introducing the Risc PC. The software market was still quite active, but it would have been difficult to provide an emulation solution back then because the 30 MHz ARM610 not really outperformed the 25/33/36 MHz ARM3s of that time. Judging by the pace of OS development back then, it looks like Acorn only had the dev capacity to do the bare minimum.

For ROL on the other hand…I agree with Steve that keeping the 26bit business made sense back then. However, not producing a HALified RISC OS as soon as possible was a mistake

JF thought so too:

The decision by the RISCOS Ltd board to abandon all work on hardware development, and instead to focus on the emulation solutions stung a lot at the time – and was the primary reason for leaving the company really. When I returned later, the decision to do no work towards no hardware was still there. It had been made clear that the extant hardware, and the emulation systems, were the only ways that should be pursued. This tended to colour judgement, but it was always in my mind that a portable system – new hardware with suitable capabilities – should be a goal.

Said new hardware essentially had to have a 32-bit OS and ideally a HAL so that they didn’t need to re-invent the wheel with each revised hardware platform.

Looking back, when was the ideal point of time to switch to 32bit for Acorn? Maybe when introducing the Risc PC.

Possibly at that point, with a 26/32 config switch (probably complicated)

…less than a week to go to the show so why not go along and see what the ROOL epic announcement is all about….

where did you hear the announcement that there would be an ‘epic announcement’?
Nothing on comp.sys.acorn.announce, in the ROOL forums apart from the above or the ROOL News page!

where did you hear the announcement that there would be an ‘epic announcement’?

Probably just read the text in the exhibitors info and assumed that there would actually be “an announcement of epic proportions on the day of the show.”

where did you hear the announcement that there would be an ‘epic announcement’?

It has the potential to get circular, but RISCOSitory’s show preview makes a reference to ROOL saying it. I actually can’t remember where I heard it originally, which I know doesn’t help…

Oh, yes… and what the other Steve said… the Show Guide… that’s the one…

I should really have known that!

:-)

Looking back, when was the ideal point of time to switch to 32bit for Acorn? Maybe when introducing the Risc PC.

Yes, then. The market we doing well at that time. There would be difficulty in the change, but not insurmountable.

Epic announcement? If it is “epic” I expect nothing less than they’ve cut a deal with Aaron for access to the ROLtd sources and (finally) the two versions of RISC OS will be merged (and maybe A9home users will get one that works).

That’s my definition of “epic”.

Anybody else for Wild Mass Guessing ?

The original quote I have for this is from Jim Nagel posting to Archive member people.

“Rool (RiscOS Open Ltd, the custodian of the operating system) promises “an announcement of epic proportions” on the day."

For my speculation, I expect a terrible pun on the words “epic” and “proportions” e.g. a new proportional width font called “Epic”.

For me, it would be pretty epic to get an SD card I can shove in a Pi, ideally any Pi but just Model B (Revision 2 512MB RAM) would be okay, that will then run out of the box, with 3840×2160 (24Hz, 25Hz or 30Hz) display driver, !Zap, !Draw, BASIC, NetSurf & FontEd all fully working. (Currently I have to switch SD cards to get some of them, can’t get all at once on the same card.)

I could probably do it myself (with more effort than I can muster) – but if someone would like to do it for me, I’d be willing to pay a reasonable amount for it…any offers?

For bonus points it’d be nice if it could access my NAS (which a PC reports as being a Mac but the Pi currently can’t see at all) but that’s not a deal breaker. (Edit: actually, if it could access any reasonably-priced NAS that the Mac could also access, I’d be up for buying another NAS for the purpose. Or of course best of all if it could access the Mac directly.)

where did you hear the announcement that there would be an ‘epic announcement’?
Nothing on comp.sys.acorn.announce, in the ROOL forums apart from the above or the ROOL News page!

Well the Archive flyer from Jim Nagel had this in the text and also it is on the Wakefield show guide page as pointed out else where.

Now putting 2 and 2 together and making 5 here is my speculation for what this may be and falling in to the “Epic” meaning as far as I am concerned:

- RISC OS Developments Ltd are the new owners of RISCOS having bought out Castle
- As Rick said earlier deal cut with ROL and a unified RISCOS is now a reality
- Last single core version of RISCOS is now mainstream.
- 64 bit and multi core is being worked on and will be available via daily builds and renamed RISCOS 7
- Jeffrey Lee has agreed to be full time developer, as if he isn’t all ready, and will work full time at ROOL HQ for a packet of crisps and the occasional non alcholic drink each week. In return ROOL have nominated him for a RISCOS knighthood.

Given how often Epic and Awesome are banded around now days sadly Peter’s speculation could be right and a new font is the order of the day.

Still nothing wrong in dreaming only the waking up to reality isn’t that good.

Clive – we do offer a Pi Support Scheme, although to be fair, I suspect it won’t quite do everything you mention.

However, the thing that does do it all right now is a kit form ARMX6. It’s faster than your Pi, allows for native SATA for SSDs etc, very reliable, and “out of the box” does 4k as you request, and all the software you mention is supplied and working guaranteed. Plus, the money you spend on it goes directly into RISC OS development.

Thanks to the recent network development, it’ll (probably) access your NAS too – it certainly does with the various units I have on the test bench right now (I’m supplying several at the show). We do rather specialise in networking.

if it could access any reasonably-priced NAS that the Mac could also access

We use an old Debian based PC as a NAS that provides Samba as well as NFS shares and can be accessed by Windows, Mac, Linux and RISC OS without any problems. Its a home-made system but I believe there are solutions available that would fill your needs…

Zap and Ovation(Pro) made the conversion to 32 bit.

I just tried the BDFtoZap font convertor and it is not 32bit. Is there a new home for Zap? I dont need the zeropain version on my Iyonix yet, but should check to see if it has been updated from version 0.01, or source perhaps?

I think at the moment you need to paste the bits together to make a working Zap. It seems tank’s modified sources (zero pain fixed) are not available so we don’t currently have a complete updated set of sources either… Here’s hoping…

It seems tank’s modified sources (zero pain fixed) are not available

Are the Zap sources that André Timmermans mentions here of any use?

Clive – we do offer a Pi Support Scheme, although to be fair, I suspect it won’t quite do everything you mention.

I know other people have FontEd and Zap working on the Pi, and apart from them and accessing the NAS (which isn’t vital anyway) I’ve got everything I want working okay – just not at the same time. Driving the 4K monitor works with one of my SD cards (a more recent build) but NetSurf doesn’t, and NetSurf works with a different SD card (an older build) but the resolution’s limited to 1920×1200. Draw and BASIC work fine with either. So for the odd occasion I want to work on a Draw file that really wants 4K, I put that SD card in, do the work and save it. I can convert the Drawfile to SVG either before or after switching SD cards, but I have to switch cards before I can email the SVG file to myself to use on the Mac. Workable, but a bit of a pain. It’d be worth £50 or so to sort out, and as I say, I could probably do it myself, but it’d be a hassle.

Sadly the ARMX6, even the kit form, is rather beyond my budget. I’ve been hoping all this would magically appear as a new Release build… 8~) …or even a good beta, since there are a lot of other things people would expect in a release, that I really don’t care about.

apart from them and accessing the NAS

I believe it’s true to say that all RISC OS machines can access the most common NAS boxes through LanMan98. I’ve got a Synology USBStation 2 and a WD MyCloud, both of which are accessible thus. (Note, however, that I’ve had trouble with the MyCloud as a true general purpose NAS with three quarters of a million files on it, most of which were written by RISC OS. I think MyCloud is aimed primarily at personal cloud with a smaller number of larger files, e.g. media files. I don’t know whether it falls over as a result of the sheer number of files or some of the filenames that it was given. Storing archives is much more likely to succeed at storing large numbers of files.)

Yes, it’s probably just my particular NAS. There’s a PC on the network that thinks the NAS is a Mac, and accesses both it and the actual Mac no problem. The actual Mac accesses the NAS okay. But the Pi, with LanMan98, sees none of them (whichever build SD I’m using). It talks to the internet via the router and DCHP no bother, so emailing myself isn’t a bad workaround.

Are the Zap sources that André Timmermans mentions here of any use?

There are two obstacles: one is the sources and the other is copyright licence. Both need resolving before, for example, Zap could be bundled with RCnn for the Pi. Looks like one obstacle is sorted. The original developers (or one of them) need to express a view on distribution.

Sine Nomine Software will be releasing several software updates at the show.

A new version of the relational database Impact has a greatly enhanced import tool, simplifying the process of bringing records into Impact and creating new databases from CSV files.

RiscOSM, the OpenStreetMap application, has improvements to path editing and a major new feature: the ability to draw maps with north not being at the top.

Wrangler, our mathematical puzzle application, has two new puzzle types to add to the six it offered before.

We will have freshly converted map data available to purchase on SD cards and USB sticks. We’ll be offering a discount if you hand back previously-supplied RiscOSM SD cards, so dig them out and bring them along!

The new software releases are not available on our web site yet, but we hope to upload them sometime during the week following the show.

Wrangler, our mathematical puzzle application, has two new puzzle types to add to the six it offered before.

YES! :)

Wrangler, our mathematical puzzle application, has two new puzzle types to add to the six it offered before.

(And if anyone needs it spelling out that eight puzzle types are now supported, I would advise you not to buy Wrangler!)

RISCOSbits will be attending Wakefield this year, for the first time as an exhibitor. Very much looking forward to being on the other side of the table, as it were. The usual gamut of RISCOSbits items will be available, plus a few new additions:

RiscPOD – both versions will be available: the emblazoned original case with 40GB hard drive but more importantly the new, state of the art mSATA drive with RISC OS emulators for both Windows and RISC OS on the same dual-format drive. Also ideal for backing up both systems if you don’t want the emulators!

Uber / Burp – previewed at the recent WROCC meeting, this is a universal case for many of the boards RISC OS runs on, and allows some expansion within the case itself, by adding sliding internal layers to mount additional hardware. It has been trialled with a IGEPv5, ARMx6 (Wandboard Quad), Raspberry Pi (with mSATA drive), Beagleboard, and appears to fit a Pandaboard if you’re prepared to de-solder the serial port! Feel free to join in the poll to help decide the final name.

Wispy will be given a run out with a near finished “firmware” image allowing RISC OS to access wireless access points and be configurable using NetSurf, and not requiring a PC to change connections. It also allows easy access to an up-to-date version of Firefox and some cloud storage providers.

ROSkins will hopefully be on show for the first time. ROSkins are custom printed and machine cut vinyl skins for the Official Raspberry Pi case and the One Nine Design / Flirc range of cases, displaying your OS allegiances, hardware preferences and favourite games from the comfort of your own desk.

There will also be a range of pretty fruity “pocket money” offerings available, so have a dig down the back of the settee or crack open the piggy bank for a bit of loose change. You’ll just have to pop along to see what they are.

And finally < David Attenborough Voice > a pair of those rare, near-extinct Pandas will also be available to take away, with a supply of their unique diet of RISC OS SD cards – there are only two left in captivity at RISCOSbits HQ (that’s the shed down the garden) so, having had no luck with the breeding programme, I’ll be bringing them along to release them into the wild! Be quick if you want one of these rare specimens. Even though they’re Pandas, they’re going cheep cheap! < /David Attenborough Voice >