Cross-Platform Word Processing (MacOS/RISC OS)

I’m not sure how many users out there don’t use Windows at all but if it wasn’t for starting a new job in (hopefully) September (who insist I use Windows, blargh!) I wouldn’t touch the platform at all and blissfully haven’t for a year or so.

I’ve been doing a bit of writing on RISC OS using Writer+ when I had a version that worked on my old Pi B but since upgrading to the 3B that doesn’t work because it was part of an older NutPi I bought. I since switched to Fireworkz but haven’t done much on RISC OS over the past year or so.

Now I’m hoping to get back to using it more I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts about a cross-platform word processor so I can do most of the work on RISC OS but when everyone else in the family wants to use the TV I can load up the same text on a MacBook and carry on editing. I know I will hit encoding issues but I can live with that. All the files will be copied to a NAS so I can access them from both machines.

As far as I can see my options are:

1. Use Fireworkz on RISC OS, save as RTF and then use TextEdit or LibreOffice on MacOS
2. Use Fireworkz on RISC OS and then Fireworkz on RPCEmu on MacOS
3. Get a copy of TechWriter (I’ve been wanting one for ages and ages and ages ages but keep spending all my money on bills!) and save as ODT format, then use LibreOffice on MacOS

What do you all reckon? Any other options? Anyone else doing anything similar?

I use LibreOffice on the Mac, and Zap on the Pi – but just text on the Pi, all the formatting on the Mac.

I write a lot of HTML, all entirely hand coded, and that’s perfectly fine in Zap on the Pi, batted back and forth cheerfully between that and Atom on the Mac.

Anyone else doing anything similar?

I can’t help with Mac. If it wasn’t for the iPad that I won, I wouldn’t have gone anywhere near Apple (I think it’s overpriced).

HTML:

Like Clive, I write a lot of HTML in Zap. As I’m running WebJames (HTTP server – http://heyrick.ddns.net/), I can drop the files there and pick them up on the PC. The PC is a necessity as my site host uses both a password (epic long string of gibberish) and a private encryption key. WinSCP talks to my site. I never got it to work with Ubuntu.
Anyway, I can pick up the files in Firefox, press F8 to get to the source, and either save as-is or copy-paste into Notepad++ for further editing. Said editing is often the addition of images – easily done with an old cover-mount version of “PhotoImpact”, plus Notepad++ has a utility that will open an image, then create the <img src…> tag with the sizes all filled in correctly. Then I use WinSCP to push all the stuff to the server.

General DTP:

It’s a doddle using OvationPro under RISC OS and OvationPro for Windows. Files are completely forward compatible from RISC OS to Windows. It isn’t quite so in the other direction given the tragic state of RISC OS’ handling of Unicode and the limited image formats understood by RISC OS; but as long as you’re writing in English (document revision level 4 (it’s an option)) and stick with JPEGs, files can go both ways.
An example is my recent French issue of Frobnicate; entirely written on RISC OS, printed on Windows.
MacOS is x86 now isn’t it? Does it run anything like Wine to cater for Windows applications? If so, maybe it would be capable of running OPro?

Word processing:

For simpler tasks, I find myself using Google Docs these days. I can work on a document with a Bluetooth keyboard and my phone. Used to be lovely using the iPad until Google decided to arbitrarily kill the app “because my iOS was too old”. The Android app is better than it was, but still limited. However if you have a decent modern browser, it’ll work (a little slowly) by providing a word processor interface within the browser. No space for RISC OS here, we’ve nothing that works with Docs, but it does give an idea of alterative options.

I wouldn’t touch the platform at all

I may be stuck with XP (never upgraded beyond, never saw any pressing reason to), but the interesting thing is that while I view RISC OS as an “operating system”, I tend to view Windows as a means to an end. I have dabbled with Linux, and pretty much the only thing stopping me from jumping ship is the need for WinSCP and the fact that it seems to me that an awful lot of stuff on Linux is half-finished and varying states of broken. Like that rather cool video editor that is so crash prone it’ll teach you to “Save project” often and repeatedly; or the horrible Brasero disc burner that ignores your desire to burn DVDs slowly and instead tries to write at the fastest speed the drive claims to be able to manage regardless of whether or not the machine is actually capable of it. Or the audio thingy that detects that there’s a headphone jack but utterly fails to be able to play anything to the speaker.
So, Windows. I use for copying stuff to harddisc (500GB NTFS). I use for ripping DVDs (my TV is so old it has a twist-knob for tuning and only an RF input; modern Macrovision (anti-piracy) on DVDs slaughters the TV; it’s completely unwatchable). I use for web site updates. And some other stuff, like playing “Duke Nukem” from time to time.
I find that things that I used to do with the PC, I’m doing more and more with my phone (maybe I should say “microcomputer (in the literal sense) that happens to be capable of telephony”?). This message? Firefox and a Bluetooth keyboard. Films and other video? PrimeVideo can stream me stuff in FullHD. I think that’s more than my PC is capable of dealing with (crappy motherboard mounted Intel GPU). My phone can do HEVC, that’s definitely more than my PC can cope with. News and info? An app.

So while RISC OS is an OS and something I use for “fun” (as well as more serious things), all of the others are simply means to ends. I’ve never coded for the iPad (need a Mac to do that). I’ve never written an app for Android. It’s probably been a decade since I last wrote anything for Windows. These things are just tools now. Or maybe I’m the tool and they are the distractions. ;-)

I can’t help with Mac. If it wasn’t for the iPad that I won, I wouldn’t have gone anywhere near Apple (I think it’s overpriced).

I used to think exactly the same but have been won over recently by my wife’s 2011 MacBook Air which is still going as strong as it was on the day she bought it. Also I’m shortly going to get a 2009 MacBook for free because it needs a new hard drive, RAM upgrade, new CMOS battery and main battery – except for the batteries I actually have all those things and was surprised to find that it will actually still run the latest MacOS which isn’t bad for a 9 year old machine. How many 9 year old Windows computers could run Windows 10?

I may be stuck with XP (never upgraded beyond, never saw any pressing reason to)

Well fair enough! I actually preferred Windows 2000…but think it was just because the user interface seemed cleaner. I always activate “Classic Theme” or whatever its called when I use Windows to get that 2000 era look…guess I’m stuck in my ways a bit there? Not sure what I’ll be getting at the new place, it’ll either be 7 which I can live with or 10 which everyone says is marginally better but I’m not so sure…

Google Docs:
The only personal thing I used this for recently was to do some OCR on a couple of chapters I had written on my typewriter and scanned in – it worked really well but does make me wonder are there any good scanners and OCR applications for RISC OS? Maybe that should be a separate thread? My current company and previous company make extensive use of Google Docs and they also use Google for all their email, etc., In a corporate environment it feels so much better than having to open up Word and then upload or email your document to other people…I really like the way Google Docs allows collaboration but it is marred by the one or two people who insist on using Word like my current boss does. So yeah, I have a lot of respect for Google Docs and could probably use the Apple version to good effect, but neither available on RISC OS obviously!

General DTP:
Last time I had to do DTP for work was either all in XML with XSLT to parse it into PDF, or using Scribus or even LibreOffice which at the time had a really good PDF export and the Draw application was perfect for the product datasheets I was making at the time. Most of my career as a technical writer before I moved onto other things was using XML though and I wrote almost all of it by hand in Emacs.

HTML:
I only do a tiny amount of this kind of thing these days and tend to use StrongEd or Leafpad to do it – I’m even forgetting all of my hard-learned Emacs keyboard shortcuts!

Does it run anything like Wine to cater for Windows applications?

Yes I believe it does!

I’m doing more and more with my phone

I actually wrote most of my last story using a bluetooth keyboard and phone along with a text editor that automatically uploaded everything to a cloud (can’t remember which it was and my phone is lurking somewhere else in the house at the moment). It worked very well as a system and I generally managed to do a chapter each lunchtime to get the thing finished and then stitched them all together on my laptop once it was done…except the last two chapters which I wrote on a typewriter because I found one in a charity shop and wanted to try it out.

The problem is that my new work wont let me take in my phone or laptop so I am going to be writing the rest of my current story in notepads and then am going to type it up at a later date into probably RISC OS becasue (see above) my MacBook might not actually work! Since publishers like things to be in certain formats, I’m sure I’ll end up doing the final edit on my wife’s computer or on my own MacBook if it does work.

But anyway, I’m blethering…it happens quite easily when you have a good keyboard in front of you!

Thanks for the responses and if anyone else has any thoughts then please don’t be shy!

How many 9 year old Windows computers could run Windows 10?

My 12 year old laptop is running the latest windows 10 (1803) in 2gb with a 128GB ssd. My wife’s ipad v4 has been abandoned by apple.

I’ve just inherited an old Windoze machine from my son. It’s wonderful – 8GB RAM, 256GB HDD, running Windoze 7. It works (mains only, battery’s knackered) and doesn’t keep spending hours trying to update itself. Top of the range model from about eight (?) years ago – far better than my cheapo crappy Medion, 2 years old, now gathering dust (2GB RAM, 64GB eMMC, Windoze 10).

Not that I use the PC for much – Migrainesoft ICE, and internet & writing when away from the desk.

I use Techwriter just about everyday and have done so for years. And can thoroughly recommend it. It is not without foibles, for instance large tables with footnote references in can trip up the formatting.

However to use it to edit cross platform using the Word or ODT formats is fraught with formatting issues – things liketables can be messed up. In general Word doc format is better supported than ODT. Having said this simple text documents can be successful.

For importing Word docs for subsequent editing can be quite effective acknowledging some Word features are not supported.

Note that when exporting from TW to Word format things like equations get converted to bitmap graphics so on re-import makes editing a problem.

Despite the cross platform limitations I wouldn’t be without TW it is one of the programs that keeps me using RiscOS.

For Cross platform what happened to Textease?

Gwyn

For Cross platform what happened to Textease?

IIRC it did not even get 32bitted.

Textease V5.93 (Jun 11 2003) is 32bit.

I use riscos programs (if they are suitable), and when not in front of a riscos machine I use them in emulator.
No need for crossplatform , if you don’t count emulators :)

@ Glen looking at the original post, it looks like you have decided against upgrading nutpi and using the a newer version of Writer+. Easiwriter is the natural upgrade from writer+ and slightly cheaper to purchase. I recently bought Techwriter because I need to write equations and use various symbols and although it seems quite expensive, I have found it to be a great piece of software. Cannot comment on Mac stuff as I cross platform with Windows.

However to use it to edit cross platform using the Word or ODT formats is fraught with formatting issues – things liketables can be messed up. In general Word doc format is better supported than ODT. Having said this simple text documents can be successful.

Useful info thanks!

it looks like you have decided against upgrading nutpi

Yes I have quite a limited budget for software and my next purchase is going to be a copy of Messenger Pro which I think would be more useful to me than NutPi (I need the full Messenger Pro so I can get IMAP). After that I will start saving for (possibly) TechWriter.

EasiWriter does look like a good option actually…but there is a part of me that yearns for the best on offer! Its like when you get a car and didn’t get some optional extra and every time you get in it the blank spot where that option would have had a switch seems to look at you and say “hey! why didn’t you buy me?”

No need for crossplatform , if you don’t count emulators :)

I’m certain one of the first things I will install on the Mac is RPCEmu! Having said that though, there are times when I have to share my writing in an editable form to…well…editors! (currently this is all quite informal, but I’m sure if I ever get good enough at it then there will be a formal requirement and most likely the need for DOC format…although I have noticed an increasing number of companies accepting ODT as well).

there will be a formal requirement and most likely the need for DOC format

I prepare all the stuff I submit (and I submit a lot of stuff to editors who require .docx format) on LibreOffice, and save in .docx format. I check that it’s actually formatting correctly (and occasionally fix formatting errors) using Microsoft Office online – which is free. I don’t think they’re nicking my intellectual property…

Word processing is actually the only serious (as in paid) work that I use RISC OS for. Being able to handle industry standard formats natively is something I’d consider essential. I tried converting formats in between systems but not only did this always result in additional work, more often than not it would fail badly. While submitting RTF files might be acceptable in some cases most publishers have moved on. Microsoft’s old (pre 2007!) document format will be fine for submissions but don’t expect publishers to send you *.doc files.
Depending on how far up the food chain you are you can of course ask nicely but usually it’s going to be docx. I’d strongly recommend investing in EasiWriter/TechWriter which is capable of handling docx formatted documents, certainly a priority over IMAP (IMHO!)
In the old days writers would hand in typewritten copy, nowadays publishers expect you to do all the work.

Are EasiWriter/Techwriter .docx files 100% reliable? LibreOffice produces .docx files which reliably load on MicrosoftOffice, but which occasionally appear different in detail there — hence my use of OfficeOnline to check them.

Even different versions of Microsoft docx documents aren’t 100% accurate, sorry.
That’s why TeX/LaTeX is still the preferred standard in (some parts of) academia.

Even different versions of Microsoft docx documents aren’t 100% accurate, sorry.

Its why I always encouraged the use of XML and DocBook when I was a Technical Author – originally I did use LaTeX for it all but XML proved easier to parse into HTML and HTMLHelp for built-in software manuals so I switched to that.

So many companies still do all their manuals in Word though…I think its just because its seen an easy/cheap option. As in “why employ a professional writer when the engineer can write the manual and use Word which is basically a no-cost option because we’ve already paid for the Office license?”…but then of course you end up with one engineer who can’t be bothered or is too busy working so does a crappy 3 page manual and another engineer who is really really into their subject and writes a 100 page book on the intricacies of electronic switch de-bouncing instead of a short summary of how to install the lightswitch.

Anyway…I did have a fantasy project idea where I would port a DocBook parser to RISC OS so I could write in XML (either in StrongEd, Zap or the imaginary Thorn editor…) and then produce HTML/PDF documents using DocBook…it has never been anything more than a fantasy though and I doubt there would be much interest in using it?

Did LaTeX ever make it onto RISC OS?

Even different versions of Microsoft docx documents aren’t 100% accurate, sorry.

Indeed. But at least if my docs look the way I want them on OfficeOnline, no-one can say the problem lies in the software I’m using.

TeX/LaTeX is still the preferred standard in (some parts of) academia

Sure. But sadly not with any of the publishers I’m liable to be dealing with.

I always encouraged the use of XML and DocBook when I was a Technical Author

When I was a Tech Author (9 years at ARM) I didn’t get a choice: we used FrameMaker, with its own file format.

Well, there’s an old version of TeX but that’s never been updated to 32-bit (AFAIK). The achilles’ heel of LaTeX has of course always been its poor convertibility (plus its steep learning curve). Publishers like everyone else are ruthless when it comes to cost cutting, which also explains the widespread use of Microsoft Office.

FrameMaker wasn’t exactly cheap either but seems to become increasingly obsolete with Adobe having dropped MacOS support completely.

File types out of RO.

With Ref to !PrintPDF :-

in the ‘choices – Optimization – EBook’

Can you print out a PDF – that a EBook can make sense of?

Would be nice if RO manuals could be on the EBook – for a quick Reference.

FrameMaker wasn’t exactly cheap either but seems to become increasingly obsolete with Adobe having dropped MacOS support completely.

I don’t know what ARM use now – it’s ten years since I retired. But it was all on PCs, not Macs, in those days.

I’m not doing that kind of writing any longer – fiction’s really the only thing I do for paper publication, and for online I write everything in HTML, which I do on a plaintext editor, Zap on the Pi or Atom on the Mac. The publisher who takes most of my stuff is happy with .odt. Illustrations are either .jpg bit images (GIMP on the Mac) or .svg (converted from Drawfiles on the Pi).

Can you print out a PDF – that a EBook can make sense of?
Would be nice if RO manuals could be on the EBook – for a quick Reference.

Does your e-reader not handle PDFs directly?

That said, PDF is a page-based format. It does work on my e-reader, but it’s somewhat clumsy.
EPUB appears to be a very strict¹ subset of XHTML, so would need the content formatted in such a way in order to get it working correctly on an e-reader. Perhaps converting from the online wiki (or StrongHelp²) might be preferable to dealing with PDF?

¹ Writing <br> when you should have written <br /> will cause many e-reader parsers to simply give up and stop reading the input. Unlike a web browser, there’s practically zero tolerance for errors in epub markup. You’ll need to use Calibre on a PC (or the like) to verify the file is syntaxtually correct. https://www.heyrick.co.uk/blog/index.php?diary=20160717

² Though note that StrongHelp documentation is not without errors – witness the CD stuff being discussed elsewhere. ;-) Still, it’s better than nowt.

I don’t know what ARM use now

According to the ARMv8 Application Platform document that I just downloaded…

Creator: AH XSL Formatter V6.2 MR4 for Linux64 : 6.2.6.18551 (2014/09/24 15:00JST)
Producer: Antenna House PDF Output Library 6.2.609 (Linux64)
Creation date: 11:40:34 13-Nov-2015

So it’s written in XML and/or HTML and translated into a document by the above mentioned parser. This makes sense, given that most of the data is available on their website, so the master copy (if not the HTML) will be something that can easily be translated to various different formats.
It makes a pretty good looking document, actually.

The days of such things as FrameMaker are behind us…

Edit: Hey! This is post six-six-six-six! ;-)

Coincidentally, I was this afternoon at a gathering at which there were several old ARM friends – including a few who are still there. I also learned that they work in XML, but I didn’t discover what machines/OS they use.

Comrades in ARM, indeed.