*configure boot

I think my ADFS HardDrive 4 is starting to fail. If it does I will not be able to boot from it but will I still be able to issue the necessary *commands to change the configuration to boot from my IDEFS HardDrive 4? Or will the machine be beyond normal help?
The IDEFS HardDrive 4 has a full copy of the ADFS Disc including the !Boot file.
The reason for thinking the ADFS HardDrive is failing is:- At times it sounds like a machine gun, or perhaps a thick piece of cardboard being struck by the spokes of a bicycle wheel. I was wondering if the stepper motor might be getting stuck as it tries to move the head.
The noise will last for about 5 seconds at Boot up but then all appears ok this does not occur every time and never seems to happen if the drive has been spun down and then spun up again. Can anyone help?

will I still be able to issue the necessary *commands to change the configuration to boot from my IDEFS HardDrive 4?

Yes, those commands are all in ROM (either the system ROM or the podule ROM as appropriate). At a minimum you would need to issue Configure Filesystem IDEFS and Configure IDEFSDrive 4 (apologies if I haven’t got the command syntax quite right – I don’t have a system with IDEFS installed to try them). You should also check that the new drive has had *Opt 4 2 applied.

If you really do have everything copied over to the new drive I suggest you do it immediately, thus allowing you to remove the failing drive.

The reason for thinking the ADFS HardDrive is failing is:- At times it sounds like a machine gun,

Over the years we’ve found on numerous occasions that noises users thought where from a dodgy hard drive where actually the PSU fan! Not always, but quite common. Opening up the case and removing any podules will confirm the source.

If you have any doubt about a drive, back it up, and replace it immediately.

From RISC OS you can use DiscKnight to check the filing system integrity but tells you nothing about the health of the disc. *Verify will check the disk surface is readable – use the F12 command prompt, not a task window or the verify from the drive menu – then you can see any retries indicated with question marks. Any failure or retry means replace the drive.

If you can put the disc in a Linux or Windows box, you can use the smart information to see it is reporting any issues.

I found something last night that might affect the OP when swappuing discs around. It’s on a RO4.02 RPC, which has a Unipod fitted.

I have bought a recertified disc from CPC (only £7) to replace the current boot disc, which sometimes sticks and doesn’t spin up. I put the new disc on the Unipod cable, formatted it, copied everything from the current boot disc, set opt 4.2, and then issued *configure filesystem idefs.
Rebooting was fine, both discs show up, all well – or so I thought.

Next day I switched it on – long delay after idefs initialisation, then “boot failed to complete, floppy boot, cancel, retry?” etc.
Cancel got to the desktop eventually. IDEFS disc present and working. ADFS disc shows as 4: and ADFS locks up when trying to access it. alt-break killed ADFS after another of the 2 minute delays.
Issue *configure filesystem ADFS and reboot – same sort of thing.
Issue *configure filesystem IDEFS, shut down and power off.
Open the case, and thump the ADFS disc.
Power on, all working.

It seems that if the ADFS disc doesn’t spin up, the system will not boot from IDEFS. WTF???

As I formatted the new disc on IDEFS it has a partition table, and it isn’t recognised if I plug it into the ADFS connector.

I think the route to a solution is to swap the drives, boot from IDEFS, then format the new drive on ADFS – assuming I can get this configuration to boot. Then copy the original disc, now on IDEFS, to the new one, on ADFS.

Or maybe make the new disc a slave to the old one on the ADFS cable. I would need a paranoid degree of caution before formatting in this case though – too easy to format the boot disc by mistake.

Ideally I would use just the new disc, on IDEFS. Is this possible if it won’t boot without a disc on the ADFS connector – or is the problem that there is a disc there but it doesn’t work?

It seems that if the ADFS disc doesn’t spin up, the system will not boot from IDEFS. WTF???

I would be more concerned that the disc didn’t spin up until physically nudged.

Not spinning up would put it in the category of F***ed¹ and needing immediate replacement.

¹ That was accepted as “a technical term” by our then director some years ago.

RISC OS can only be configured to boot off one drive on one filing system. It has no concept of trying different filing systems or drives until it finds something it can boot from.

RISC OS can only be configured to boot off one drive on one filing system. It has no concept of trying different filing systems or drives until it finds something it can boot from.

which is what I expected. However what I’ve found is that while booting from one drive on one filing system, another faulty drive on a different filing system can cause the boot process to be interrupted. I don’t see why this is the case, but I suspect it might relate to the fact that the faulty drive is on the motherboard-connected filesystem, while booting is from a filesystem on a podule.

Not spinning up would put it in the category of F***ed1 and needing immediate replacement.

Which is why I was trying to get the system to boot from IDEFS with a new disc. However it doesn’t seem to work unless the old disc on ADFS spins up. I haven’t tried with no disc on the ADFS connector yet – I had reassembled the machine with the extra slices before I discovered this.

Which is why I was trying to get the system to boot from IDEFS with a new disc.

So physically unplug the old disc and see what happens!

And configure the number of ADFS hard discs!

My guess would be that you’ve got some entries in !Boot that reference ADFS, so although it is booting from IDEFS it is still trying to load some things from ADFS.

RISC OS will still try mount any discs present, even if it isn’t set to boot off them. There will be quite a long timeout if any discs are faulty.

And configure the number of ADFS hard discs!

The option is labelled IDE Discs in RO4.

Unfortunately that doesn’t work. It sets the value “IDEdiscs” to 0, and when IDEFS tries to boot, it says “disc not found”.

RISC OS will still try mount any discs present, even if it isn’t set to boot off them. There will be quite a long timeout if any discs are faulty.

That matches what I am seeing.

I think I need to disconnect the old disc. However I’d like to make the new disc able to work on the motherboard interface if possible. As currently formatted it isn’t seen, I suspect because using IDE tools to format it has created a partition.

I’m assuming I need to connect the new disc as a slave on the motherboard cable in order to reformat it, then copy everything off the old disc again, which is risky if the old disc gives up in the meantime.

What does DiscKnight show when the new disc isn’t recognised on the motherboard? – Don’t try a fix, until I’ve had a look.

You should be able to put a new disc on the motherboard (set links to master) and boot from the disc on the IDE interface with the suitable configure options. Format new disc with HFORM, and copy the contents.

I think I must have got confused. I’ve just swapped the discs between interfaces, and both discs now work when connected to each of the interfaces. I can boot from the new disc on the ADFS interface, which is what I thought wasn’t working.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and ideas. Somewhere along the line it all got working.

Maybe i need to stop trying to do three things at once…

Maybe i need to stop trying to do three things at once…

Yes, uneven load. Two or four things at once is better

No more things than you have hands!

No more things than you have hands!

Use the fourth David, use the fourth…