Omni / Lanman98 setup? (oh, and IMAP)

Hi all,

I did try googling this but got stuck in a rabbit hole of legacy RiscOS 3.x stuff. Is there a walkthrough anywhere of how to do an initial setup to get Omni and Lanman98 to play nicely together to access Windows shares in a modern network setup?

I’ve got a Pi 3 with RiscOS 5.28 that’s just on plain ethernet running over DHCP. Win10 box is doing the same. Win10 box has got a secondary 3tb drive that’s already shared to other users and works fine, and I want RiscOS to have access to this for backups and sharing documents. On Win10 I’ve created a user specifically for the Pi to use, and given this user access to a new, dedicated folder on the 3tb drive (other users have access to it to).

I haven’t got the software yet but once this is setup I’d like to add !CloudFS to the picture as well.

If there’s a decent tutorial out there someone can point me to, that’d be awesome :)

On a totally unrelated note, would like to pick up my Gmail within RiscOS, but Netsurf doesn’t play nicely, and Pluto doesn’t seem to support IMAP as far as I can tell. Any consensus on what the best option out there would be? I don’t do anything elaborate – it’s just a plain old Gmail account (though calendar integration would be AWESOME).

Cheers :)

Jasmine

For Omni/LM98 use with W10, the main things you need to do are:

1) Add SMB 1 server (and client perhaps, but certainly server) support to Win10 via Add/Remove Programs window (then click Add/Remove Windows Features).

2) When sharing folders, you need to ensure permissions are right. This applies to Windows sharing in general, and can be a pain in the proverbial. Usually the way to start is to share the folder “simple sharing” style, then re-do it “Advanced” to make sure all is well. Simple sharing seems to be better at setting file/sub-folder properties, whilst Advanced sharing is better for ensuring that the right user-permissions are set. For ease (NOT security – up to you how you feel about this) setting the folder to “Everyone” and “Full Access” permissions is the least hassle.

3) In the Network Sharing Center/Advanced Sharing settings stuff in Windows, you need to switch from 128bit to 40/56bit security, and possibly turn off password protected sharing.

4) Once you have it working, you can experiment with adding back some of the security features, but I’d get it working first, then add security back once you know you have a working baseline.

For IMAP, you probably want our Messenger Pro email system, which has an IMAP mode. I do occasionally test Messenger Pro and our NetFetch software against Gmail just to check it works. It can be a pain because Google do not like any other apps than their own accessing gmail on any platform, so you need to configure the account to allow other apps on other platforms.

On a totally unrelated note, would like to pick up my Gmail within RiscOS, but Netsurf doesn’t play nicely, and Pluto doesn’t seem to support IMAP as far as I can tell.

Mine just gets copied to Pluto no problem. I’m not prepared to delve into my settings without good reason, but it must be easy enough if I can do it!

Thanks, Andrew. That’s really useful. Will have a play with that after work. I’m beginning to regret being tied into the Google ecosystem – alas I’m well and truly stuck in the quicksand now :(

Pluto itself does not support IMAP, or even POP3, as it is used with a ‘Transport Application’ eg AntiSpam, Hermes or POPstar. They all support POP3, which I believe can be used with gmail. Both AntiSpam & Hermes can be used with SSL/TLS encrypted connections for added security.

They all support POP3, which I believe can be used with gmail.

Yep but you do as Andrew said have to alter your settings in your GMail account firstly to let it be an on option as it is off by default and secondly to get around Google’s “Not one of our secure products” hurdles.

The latter will of course also affect IMAP just the same if you have 2 step authorisation set up on the account.

The Application Password option will need to be set up and one created when two step authorisation is set on the main account.

Obviously you will need a more capable browswer for that so on RISCOS try Otter/Qupzilla or if you have access to the new ROD Browser that or fallback to Windows/Linux use to set up.

Note if you change your Gmail/Google account password they revoke the App password as well so you would need to create another.

From there on it is the same as any other email service that needs details on the RISC OS side to be entered in.

OAuth2 implementation that I believe Microsoft have delayed, due to Covid 19, for their email service is also something that RISC OS will need to address though I believe RComp are aware that things will need to be made available sometime in the future.

I use MPro IMAP to fetch/send mails via my gmail account. No known problems.

I have my gmail account downloading via POP rather then IMAP to my computer, via Hermes (part of !NetFetch) and then to Messenger Pro (set it up about 4 days ago). Note you do have to change a setting in Gmail to allow a “less” secure Application to access the account, but that is just a tick box, I did not need an Application passowrd, because I did not turn on the 2 factor logon. Once setup in Hermes it all just works.

I have my gmail account downloading via POP…

So many people are doing what I have done. My set-up is POPstar and Pluto – both free!

Thank goodness I didn’t have to explain how I set-it-up!

I did not need an Application passowrd, because I did not turn on the 2 factor logon.

I prefer to use maximum security on my account everywhere else so hence the two step is on and also it means that I haven’t got to agree to the disclaimer from Google.

The good thing is both ways work on RISC OS :-)

I prefer to use maximum security on my account everywhere else

This.
The only time you should skimp on security is when you’re damn certain that it’s not connected to the public internet.

Yahoo! is the same. A special gibberish password for logging in via Android Mail or K9 Mail. It’ll show it to you exactly once. And, interestingly, it appears to allow a few days grace period of using the regular password on a new client, before refusing connections until you’ve set up an application password.
[experience – just recently set up a new tablet and forgot this was how it is now]

I won’t run the apps for three reasons:

• I don’t trust Yahoo! not to send back all sorts of telemetry “because they can”.
• I think the GMail interface is the most god-awful mess – it’s the bastard lovechild of text messaging and news feeds. I’m old school, I like email to look and feel like email.
• Which means… I like one app that holds my various email accounts, not a dozen different apps.

Got things set up on the Windows side (SMB server and client both added, encryption set to 40/56-bit, sharing on, password off) but still a bit confused about the RiscOS side. I haven’t touched !Omni or my network settings. Have downloaded !Lanman98. Tried to use it connect from the mid-click menu and “New…” then just entering my share info as:

Local name: What I want to call the share locally “ShareDrv”
Server: Host name of my PC
Share: The share address as shown in windows \\hostname\folder
User name: The windows user I created for the share
Password: p/w for that user as created in windows

I leave “No types” and “Keep password” blank. Hit connect and it sits for about ten secs then gives a timeout error. :(

Any thoughts on where I go from here? Lanman has an “Omni plugin” but no info on what to do with it or where I needs to go? Right now I’ve got Lanman in a dedicated “network” folder I created on the SD. Thoughts on a postcard please :)

Got to agree with the current Gmail web (and app) interface. It used to be really good, but now it’s gone to feature creep hell. On the website I’ve set the HTML view as standard. It’s faster and it actually shows me my emails, not what emails Google think I want to see. I haven’t touched Yahoo even with a bargepoal of unusual length ever since they changed their IM system years ago and obliterated all my IM history.

Hi Jasmine,

Hit connect and it sits for about ten secs then gives a timeout error. :(

Firstly I would check that your RISC OS machine sees the Windows one by opening up a task window on the RISC OS one and pinging your PC:

*ping xxxx , where xxxx is the name of your PC.

Hopefully you get a response but if not then it points to something not set up correctly on the network or your PC rather than LanMan98.

You could also look at Bernard Veasey’s network setup guide

Also check in your network properties that NetBios over TC/IP is on.

On the PC side I have in Advance Network settings:

Network discovery on
Turn on automatic setup of network devices
File and Printer sharing On

Under All networks:
Turn off Public sharing
Use 128 bit encryption
Turn on password protected sharing

So if I want to see all the files for my user log on for my PC in LanMan98 I have:

Local Name – What I want it to be
Server Name – PC name that you can ping
Share is Users
User Name is the one I log on to the PC with
Password is the passord for the above PC user
No Types ticked
Keep password not ticked.

Hope this helps

The only time you should skimp on security is when you’re damn certain that it’s not connected to the public internet

It’s called the 1900’s I think where you need to be :-)

The best guide for “Connecting a RISC OS computer running LanMan98 to a Windows 10 PC” is Bernard Veasey’s guide available here

Hi all,
Ran a ping test from both ends – both machines can happily ping each others, and times are fine.

I set up the host file on Risc os are bernard suggested, added IP and hostname for the PC. Otherwise all settings seem to be as they should be, though I haven’t touched !Omni at all, so not sure if I’m missing something there?

It’s really weird that the pi is pinging the desktop fine in riscos, but then lanman just times out, doesn’t even say it’s getting rejected, or wrong credentials or anything of that sort. Otherwise network on the riscos is fine, no problems on the web or anything (I’m using Netsurf to send this).

Thanks for the tips so far, everyone – much appreicated :)

Will come back to it again tomorrow evening, and hope for better luck!

It may have been easier to start with LanMan rather than LanMan98 as that will authenticate without modifying the windows10 setup other than enabling the SMB 1.0/CIFS server – which needs to be followed by a restart.

If you are using a microsoft account to log on to the computer then the username is the microsoft email address and the password the password for the microsoft email address. Besides not supporting the default windows 10 authentication Lanman98 also has the problem that if the username is a long email address it won’t fit in the username field.

Hi Jasmine,

OK it might be system file access permissions then.

Easiest way to check is to allow the public folders to be seen and try that or actually go in a set up a shared directory though sometimes that doesn’t work.

So try opening up file explorer and then finding a directory you want to share and then right mouse click on it and from the pop up select Sharing tab and then advance Sharing and select Share this folder, give it a name and then select sharing permissions and then Add and search for the user name you wish to use and select the options and then apply.

Hope this helps.

Update:

Besides not supporting the default windows 10 authentication Lanman98 also has the problem that if the username is a long email address it won’t fit in the username field.

Yep thats a good point as well.

Sounds like LanMan might be the better bet. Bit confused about the version number on it – is LanMan an older or newer version? I didn’t notice it on !Store.

It’s part of the operating system.

Click on Apps on the iconbar then !Omni.

On the icon that appears click on Menu→Mounts→Protocols→LAN Manager

Enter:

Name: Any name you want to call the share on riscos
Server name: name of the PC device
Directory path: name of pc share - can be seen in file explorer under Network
User name: your logon username for the pc
Password: your logon password for the pc

Everything is case insensitive except for the password

When you have done that click on connect and it should connect

So I have a share called TestShare on my PC (called Neptune) which appears in file explorer and in omni I put

Name: Neptune
Server name: NEPTUNE
Directory path: TESTSHARE
User name: MY.WINDOWS.AT.EMAIL.ADDRESS
Password: PassWord

LanMan is built in to RISC OS and both it and LanMan98 have good or not so good points and hence why there is a bounty to improve LanMan.

You can set up LanMan by running Omni client, which should be in your Apps directory by default.

Menu select over it’s icon on the iconbar and go to Mounts>Protocols>Lan Manager which bring up the entry dialogue box.

Then fill in the same sort of information you needed for LanMan98.

Name – What you wnat to call it
Server Name – Your PC’s name
Directory path – As before or just use Users
User name – Your PC login name /ID
Password – Your user name/iD password
Tick the Open selection if you wnat the window contents to open up and then click Connect.

Let us know how you get on.

You

Both LanMan and Lanman98 both have pros and cons but LanMan is easier to get working.

Cheers – thanks guys! Will have a play after work. I’ve had the RiscOS 5 user guide arrive in the post today as well, so that should help :)

The saga continues! Using LanMan (not LanMan98)

• Can ping PC from RiscOS and vice versa.
• RiscOS accessing the internet happily (even the weather app is happy)
• PC happily online and sharing folders with other machines.

PC sharing settings (Windows 10 personal, not corporate version):
Network discoverable: On
File/Print sharing: On
Ecryption: 40/56-bit
Password Protection: Tried both off an on
Folder: Shared to my login, Pi dedicated login and “All users”, full read/write access.

LanMan:
Name: WinFS (what I want it called)
Server name: desktop (that’s literally it’s name)
Share name: acorn (that’s the share name)
Username: tried both the dedicated one and my own admin
Password: PASSWORD1234, obviously! :p

Consistently getting error in all cases. “Cannot make TCP/IP connection” after about a minute of egg timer.

Password: PASSWORD1234, obviously! :p

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