Automatically moving pinboard to front.

My suggestion:

Double clicking the blank middle of the icon bar auto-pins every window, then adds some kind of tab to the top of the bar with “Restore windows” and “Dismiss” buttons. The former unpins all the windows that were pinned by the double click (leaving ones that were already pinned as they were), and the latter confirms that you want the windows to stay like that.

Double clicking the blank middle of the icon bar auto-pins every window

That part exists, Ctrl-Alt the ICONISE icon.

That part exists, Ctrl-Alt the ICONISE icon.

It’s counterintuitive though. It’s odd having something you do to a specific window affecting every window in the way. It also provides no obvious way of getting the windows back again.

I have been reading this interesting thread. I personally think the option to toggle the desktop to the front is a good one and should really be part of the OS nowadays, especially if we want to help encourage others from other platforms to use RISC OS, since its pretty much a standard feature on other OS’s nowadays.

As to the best way I like the key combination of Logo+D which could be used as an on/off switch. Although it might need to be a configuartion option for those keyboards that do not have a Logo key. You could also to help with that situation an have an icon that looks like a pair of windows on the left side of the icon bar, which could also be a toggle to bring desktop to front or move it to back again. I would not worry about a mouse use except to click on the icon if needed because you have no logo key.

As to how to indicate you have move the desktop to the front, options would be a little title bar across the top indicating this, or even how about a colour border around the edge of the screen when the desktop has been moved to the front. How do other OS’s deal with this.

It’s counterintuitive though.

Clicking Ctrl-Alt on the ICONISE button to iconise all windows, builds on the functionality of the ICONISE icon. It also works with Ctr-Alt on the CLOSE icon, to close all open windows. So at least it’s consistent. Odd that it isn’t documented in the help messages.

I personally think the option to toggle the desktop to the front is a good one and should really be part of the OS nowadays

I don’t disagree that it should ship as standard. I would just suggest that it should be a separate piece of code, which does its stuff via Message_ToggleBackdrop. That way, it’s simple to get rid of and replace by an alternative for those who don’t like change. Or, the other way around, it can work with other Pinboard applications which recognise Message_ToggleBackdrop, and isn’t tied to Pinboard 2.

RISC OS has always been about modularity and choice in this kind of thing.

You could also to help with that situation an have an icon that looks like a pair of windows on the left side of the icon bar, which could also be a toggle to bring desktop to front or move it to back again.

Right-hand side, please. The left is for hardware devices and interfaces.

Could this be a candidate for the contentious Adjust-Switcher click? Or Adjust-Display Manager? (I’m not sure on either count).

Does this match the implementation in the ROOL pinboard?

Yes, I made sure of that when I added it to the RO5 Pinboard just so that ToggleBD would work the same on both branches of the OS.

ToggleBD also works without Message_ToggleBackdrop. In absence of the message it scans the background window stack for a window belonging to the Pinboard. This is why it requires the Nested WindowManager.

If the way of activating it becomes “official”, then other app developers will know to stay out of its way.

Only if the way of doing it doesn’t clash with existing software. It’s way too late to retcon UI changes.

Double clicking the blank middle of the icon bar

What blank middle of the iconbar? ;-)

That part exists, Ctrl-Alt the ICONISE icon.

And for those of us who have turned the iconise icon off?

Also, who came up with Ctrl-Alt anything? Given InternationalKeyboard’s hijacking of Alt key combinations, the Alt key is practically unused in the rest of the OS. So Charlotte calling it “counterintuitive” was quite an understatement.

Or Adjust-Display Manager?

This makes more sense, it’s a visual thing.

An option on the Display Manager menu? Users might even find it then.

It also provides no obvious way of getting the windows back again.

Press the mouse Menu button over selected pinned icons, Pinboard Menu→ Selection → Open

The Command key + D sounds like a plan.

As Fred says, why not just leave it to the existing utilities like ToggleBD?

I agree. As Command key + D appears to a popular option, might Fred be willing to add that key combination to his application. Fred?

I’ve just tried ToggleBD and it certainly does the job for me, now that I’ve discovered you can click on its iconbar icon to activate the feature. Thank you Fred!

It works nicely in Linux Mint too. Thanks for that steer.

I suspected it might be true for Linux too, but I was already on the work laptop when I wrote that reply.

Could this be a candidate for the contentious Adjust-Switcher click?

Trigger for a rant in many locations, but I’m just going to have a small sip of an alcoholic item and smile.

Answering the question, YES – as well as the Logo+D (and the Switcher instance is where you can pop in a help message that reminds you about Logo+D)
Plus the fact that Steve clearly has in mind is that with this use of Switcher it doesn’t matter what keyboard you have, or indeed whether you VNC onto the box.

I’d vote for implementing both. I don’t think every keyboard has Logo, thinking some small laptop examples. And VNC limits quite severely the use of special keys. F12 is one I miss greatly, although there is the switcher menu option for that.

Of course for the switcher option, bringing the desktop to the front would have to include the iconbar.

I’ve just tried ToggleBD and it certainly does the job for me, now that I’ve discovered you can click on its iconbar icon to activate the feature. Thank you Fred!

My pleasure.

You can click Adjust on ToggleBD’s iconbar icon to open the choices window. In there you can specify a hotkey combination too, but not Logo-D (yet?).

Holding the pointer at a screen edge (or corner) is also possible but currently only works on RO 4.39/6.00.

Could this be a candidate for the contentious Adjust-Switcher click?

You can already do this. Just get Tamarc from my website. Create a small BASIC program to send Message_ToggleBackdrop and call it from Tamarc’s command file.

In there you can specify a hotkey combination too, but not Logo-D (yet?).

Have you tested? :)

Glad to see people like the Logo-D idea. Should be a point of familiarity for Windows weaned newcomers. Alongside the same feature in a switcher menu (or right click icon) of course.

It does strike me that while we are discussing Pinboard 2 and the background toggle effect, and Virtual desktops, and task launchers, and…

Perhaps all of these should be in Pinboard 2?

And VNC limits quite severely the use of special keys. F12 is one I miss greatly […]

I use RealVNC on the Windows PC and as far as I can say it intercepts most if not all special keys, including F12 or Ctrl-F12.
I’ve configured ToggleBD to react on simultaneously pressing the left Ctrl and Alt keys, and it works perfectly via VNC.

I keep seeing suggestions for putting options for this on the switcher, but surely the much underused Display Manager icon/menu is a far more logical place for controlling this?

F12 doesn’t get passed on by Remmina on Linux either. Getting a TaskWindow from the switcher menu is invaluable when you can’t do Ctrl+F12, but I wouldn’t bother adding F12 command mode, as the scrolling is horrendous on VNC with a decent sized desktop.

One place the lack of the F12 key press will get you though is any of the BBC or Arc emulators & games which use that key to exit.

I keep seeing suggestions for putting options for this on the switcher, but surely the much underused Display Manager icon/menu is a far more logical place for controlling this?

You’re confusing Display Manager with Window Manager

You’re confusing Display Manager with Window Manager

???

Window Manager isn’t a wimp task with an icon anyone can click on!

Window Manager isn’t a wimp task with an icon anyone can click on!

Correct, and Display Manager manages things related to the Display as opposed to the things related to on screen Windows

As you pointed out there is no icon for Window Manager, otherwise people would have immediately suggested a modified click on that icon for this function.

Well, it’s a choice between the Display tool, and the thing that shows and manages memory.

Neither are an ideal fit, but using the display tool seems more logical as it’s a visual thing, moving windows away…

Neither are an ideal fit

Exactly that. My point was that a display <> a window

However, if you’re looking for a more logical fit a Window is an aspect of a Task and Switcher is referred to as Task Switcher (even if it doesn’t and Window Manager does – got a headache¹ yet?)

Any way around, Logo+D seems to suit most people AND matches Windows & Linux so an icon based method is only there for mouse addicts and VNC users (plus people who don’t have proper keyboards)

¹ Headache: Symptom for 1 in 10 recipients of the vaccine. Selections from the list are more commonly found in people who previously had Covid and rarely in people who haven’t.

Symptom for 1 in 10 recipients of the vaccine.

Which vaccine? AstraZeneca and pfizer/Moderna use different approaches.

My choice, if I have a choice (and if they ever manage to get vaccines to regular people) would be the Moderna one.