How to add new translation of interface to non-UK language

How to correctly add a translation of the RISCOS interface into another language?
Is there a manual for which config files in source must be change?

I have DDE and sources, which I was able to build RISCOS according to the manuals.

Basically that is what the Territory app is for but that seems to be missing here somehow… but there’s good news:

Raik Fischer is working on a new Territory that supports just that – AFAIK it is working already but not absolutely sure … I stick to run RISC OS in UK langauage after having the odd issue with apps not coping well with a non-UK territory for some reason.

It would certainly be best if this – after validation for it to work well – is added to the official downloads on ROOLs pages so that it is accessible to all.

But in any case Raik can tell you what is needed…

Raik’s work will be released via the GitHub RISC OS Community project:

https://github.com/RISC-OS-Community/RISC-OS-Territory

German translation is complete, I guess when Paolo finishes Italian we will have a good idea if it works for Western Europe :-)

I have contacted Pablo Fuentes Sáez and he will correct spanish translation (or one of his students).
Also I have contact with Fokke Antonides for dutch. If someone has contact with other people from other europian countries who is willing to check the translations please contact us!

https://github.com/RISC-OS-Community/RISC-OS-Territory

Repo is empty now. I will waiting the sources.

Now I can change the translation in the UK packs resources. It works, but it’s a dirty hack)

The release is comming soon. Steffen was a bit to fast with his info. :-(
But there is nothing in the release that helps you to translate all the stuff. You have to pick every messagefile, res and template to translate.
Is dirty and masochistic ;-)

Bonjour,
I am using! Territory France (6).
Organizer needs it to display the date correctly.
Translations are not easy to do because of tokens

I have a version of SciCalc in French (with “virgule and decimal numbers” bug corrected ).For apps that are not part of the rom it’s relatively simple.
For those contained in the rom: eg: !Alarm , I use !RFSFiles (Steve Drain) to test.
I have a small program which allows me to detokenize the Messages files of the applications (get from ROOL)
Some information here

@Jean-Michel
Can you contact me please. Thanks.

To provide a scalable solution for translations to many languages, it would surely a good idea to rely on the tooling available elsewhere? OmegaT and XLIFF probably?

Starting with one language (and I think German is a good target here, because it had a complete translation up to RISC OS 5.20 and the issues are well understood) is fine, but after finding out all the nitty gritty details, surely a properly architectured tooling solution with the possibility of providing a rough machine-aided translation for any (ISO8859-is-good-enough-) language is the way to go? Especially keeping the translations up-to-date is very time-consuming without proper tooling.

The release is comming soon. Steffen was a bit to fast with his info. :-(

Note that I used the phrase “will be released”. This was intentional. People can already register their interest via GitHub to be automatically informed when the first commits appear.

@Raik
yes

For those contained in the rom: eg: !Alarm , I use !RFSFiles (Steve Drain) to test.

When working on my Region project a few years back, I did a lot of that. Region itself was too reliant on the soft-load Territory modules and thus limited in scope. ;-)

You can replace files in ResourceFS with translations and they will usually work, so you do not necessarily have to compile a new rom.

the possibility of providing a rough machine-aided translation for any language 

I used Google translate to provide language dependent parts of Region, but that was just for effect. I have no idea how they appeared to native speaker. I was also limited to RISC OS 8-bit alphabets.

I started a completely new way of implementing territories after putting Region to one side. It used the existing Territory Manager without individual Territory modules, but instantiations of a universal territory. It also made quite a lot of use of RFSFiles.

Users would be able to pick and choose individual components and there was a lot of data sharing – current Territory modules hold many duplications.

you do not necessarily have to compile a new rom

This is surely the way to go? There’s no space in ROMs for additional languages. Something in the Boot process could populate ResourceFS with available Messages / Sprites for the user’s selected UI language.

And Res and Templates. ;-)

Once decided, such files might be collected in a single module for that langage.

You not need a modul with messages, templates, res…
For any resources it is enough to set the right path at startup like
Set Filer$Path <territory$dir>.Messages.7.Filer.

But this works not with all resources. Any, like CDFS are crashing.
The better way for me is to “dump” all translatet resources to a file and register this file to ResourceFS.
The tools to do this are free and I will offer with source soon as possible. I’m a bit busy at this time.
The German translation is working on all machines I have without problems after the last bugfixes.
One known problem is the language-app of AppBasic. There is no fallback. If the AppBasic App not have the right territory folder, the app will not start. Quick fix copy the “1” folder to the territorynumber you need e.g. for me “7”. StrongKey is one of the apps use this.
The configure apps are easier to handle. If you have set your territory e.g. 7 you need Res7 and Messages7 inside. If not, it falls back to the UK messages.

For any resources it is enough to set the right path at startup

That will do it, but I think it is only effective at startup. Can you change the path later?

The better way for me is to “dump” all translatet resources to a file and register this file to ResourceFS.

Which is what I was suggesting. You can use RFSFiles to add individuals files for testing. Registering is best done in a module, I think.

The tools to do this are free and I will offer with source soon as possible.

There were a number of tools for producing such modules in the past. I wonder if any of them still work. I will check my old disc tomorrow.

If you have set your territory e.g. 7 you need Res7 and Messages7 inside. 

I realise that is really the only way to do it, but we come up against the limitations of the territory model again. What if I, in UK, want to work in German?

What you have done has been a massive effort and I am full of admiration.

What you have done has been a massive effort and I am full of admiration.

Indeed. I couldn’t even figure out how to get daylight saving rules in there, let alone a whole translation.

What if I, in UK, want to work in German?

I not understand the Problem.
I not change my complete settings if I work in an other country.
On the other hand the mixed in messages are placed in the territory number folder inside the territory app. Mix in what you like.
The Basic Territory settings comes from the modules you find in the Bonus Binaries.
If you look in $.Resources you find a folder UK or Germany or what ever if the Territory is loaded. Days-, Month-, Time-, Numberformats and other are preset.
I use an module to “mixed in and hold” the dumped message file. The module works since many years on RiscPC, a9home and other. Latest was the BeagleXM with 5.18. Have made any small changes and recompile on Titanium. The old territory app offered by a4com uses own territory modules, now the app use the latest ROOL collection.
And yes, is not a pleasure to translate all the stuff ;-)
I’m sure they are a lot of mistakes I made.

I not understand the Problem.

As I have not seen your application I should not make assumptions. Sorry. I look forward to seeing what you have done.

My own efforts have been searching for an ideal answer, but I think yours have been to provide a practical solution in the world as it is.

My own efforts have been searching for an ideal answer, but I think yours have been to provide a practical solution in the world as it is.

I hope but I’m not sure. “Ideal” is subjectiv and “practical” also. I use what I know. If anyone has a better solution, no problem. The main work is to translate all the resources. With my today knowledge this is needed for all solutions, so without translations all is nothing ;-)
The best way for me would be an environment offer by ROOL. Put the translated resources inside, configure the territory and it works. All translations are collected at a central place…

@Raik
I tried to send my email with the link above, but I don’t know if it works?
I think that for applications in ROM, you have to do it one by one and be able to test.
There are a lot of in $ Resources applications …
You have to translate the Messages and Res files.
With! RSFiles you can install both and test. You just have to relaunch the application to have the translated version.
I use four obey files: two for installing Messages and Res if necessary, the other are to reinstall original files.
There is an important application that is !Help the messages file contains tokens that must not (yet) be translated because the tokens are used by other applications in their messages file.

@Jean-Michel
Nothing has arrived me and it is nothing in Spam. I send a test to myself was working. No problem.
My question blame me so I would not write here ;-)
I know what you wrote and I can do this without problems with my solution. I have a complete German Desktop with all Apps and Configure Apps. Now my question ;-)
I’m not sure have you
*configure territory 6
Or do you use it “on the fly” with *territory 6? First is stored in cmos, last is temporarily.
My “problem” is, I can not use the configure option. The bootprocess ends in a blue floppy. “Any key” continue the bootprocess and load the needed territory correct. I’m not sure what the reason is but is with all my hardware.
Now territory 1 is configured and I set the territory temporarily after the Territory-App was seen by the OS. Not sure what my mistakes are.
On the other hand, the temporarily solution is more flexible and gives a better fallback solution.

@Raik I just tried to make contact again.
from setup:
Territory 6
I use from PRM “The Territory Manager” PRM 3-795(805)
“it will look on the configured device (ie the configured filesystem and drive) for the file $.!Territory.Territory.”
I installed the French module in a directory !Territory, but I had to rename it to “Territory”
After start:
*Territories
6 France
1 UK
territory 1 or territory 6 works fine.
Organizer changes automaticaly the date’s day.
I had to modify !SciCalc when I noticed that decimal numbers no longer worked, the comma becoming the separator with Territory in French.
I also have a problem with DataPower in territory 6, if I created an integer field, when inserting the value the program crashes …
Fortunately the Territory 1 command works fine.

If anyone has a better solution, no problem. The main work is to translate all the resources. With my today knowledge this is needed for all solutions, so without translations all is nothing ;-)

The translation is the long and tedious bit.

Forgive me if I am getting in the way, Raik, but this morning I put together a tiny utitity to gather all the Messages, Templates and Res files in ResourcesFS into a new module.

I have replaced a handful of the files with the German translations in the ROOL source code, but there are many, many more to do. The result so far is that I can double-click this module and get German error messages in BASIC. ;-)

I have also done a similar thing for the English (UK) files, so I can swap back with another double-click. I do not have to change Territories.

One other side effect is that the Messages files do not use the Dictionary, so they are readable. ;-)

This afternoon I packaged it up into an app: LangRes

It is hardly tested or documented, but if it is any help I would be pleased.

Forgive me if I am getting in the way, Raik

This is not possible. I use an other way ;-) So there is nothing to forgive.
I have take a look to your Language stuff any weeks ago. ;-)
As I wrote, I’m ready with the stuff around. Only the translated resources are missing.
The only reason I not release is, I have no answer from ROOL at this time.

I hadn’t seen the floppy disc icon on screen before! Mind you I hadn’t tried configuring Territory before today. That is bloody awful. Surely it just needs to use the code from the Embedded_UI branch there when it has failed to load from territory_path (at least for those builds where there is very unlikely to be a floppy present at ADFS::0). It was especially awful for me as my monitor didn’t sync at whatever resolution the boot is at at that point.