Econet help

I’m playing with the networking options on my machines. I have ShareFS set up, and use it frequently.

So I thought I’d try Econet. Because, well, nostalgia…

I’ve swapped the machines around, so the older Pi2 is the server in the bedroom, it is 192.168.1.10 and the 3B+ is now my main machine in the living room. It is 192.168.1.32.

I have set up the AUN mapping as:

AddMap 192.168.1.0 1

and as expected, NetMap reports:

  1.x <==> 192.168.1.x

However, when I try Net:ListFS, all I get is:

No access to network; restart computer to clear

What am I missing?

[using NetI version 6.27 (15th Feb 2023) and RISC OS 5.29 (21st March 2024), both ought to be the latest versions]

What am I missing?

Net numbers as per page 3 of the Managers Guide??

Particularly the requirement for Ethernet based networks.

I’m not sure that’s valid any more, the guide makes no reference to *AddMap, and for many of us, a good chunk of the IP address is fixed (I’m 192.168.1.x and the Livebox is 192.168.1.1 and these are not changeable).

Plus, further along (page 39?), it describes the error as:

Warning: No access to network; restart computer to clear
The Internet module (a part of the AUN software) is not responding.

So it seems as if the interface between the two is acting up.

When I have time/inclination, I’ll have to undo the ROD stack and reboot, see if that’s the issue. NetI might be trying some weird low level mojo.

I’ll have to undo the ROD stack and reboot

Ah, forgot you were using that. So, there were two changes in your setup 1. Physical swaps and 2. Different stack.

I wonder if ROD have tested Econet/AUN use ?

Physical swaps

That shouldn’t be an issue. I swapped the SD cards, so all that really changed was the underlying processor.

Why? The “server” in my room was running a core capable of 1400MHz, while my work machine (in the living room these days) only went up to 900MHz.
Seemed kind of backwards, so I swapped them around.

I wonder if ROD have tested Econet/AUN use ?

I’d be surprised if anybody (that isn’t over at *.) cared much about Econet these days…

I thought I’d try Econet
I have set up the AUN mapping as [1.x]
However, when I try Net:ListFS, all I get is:
No access to network; restart computer to clear
What am I missing?
[using NetI version 6.27 (15th Feb 2023) and RISC OS 5.29 (21st March 2024), both ought to be the latest versions]

Seems to work OK here. Also using NetI 6.27, with a Risc PC running Level4 !Server 1.30 exporting the main harddisc, and a Pi (same version of NetI) on the same net number is able to see the server – I used the ‘FS list’ menu entry of NetFiler rather than a *Command though.

I’d be surprised if anybody (that isn’t over at *.) cared much about Econet these days…

Consider yourself surprised. Econet is actively maintained; you’re loading a NetI dated from February 2023 being an initial clue, the Econet module also works on HAL systems such as RISC OS 5 and earlier (non-HAL) ones too right the way back to the Archimedes.

Short filenames in !Server suck a bit though.

Seems to work OK here.

It’s the new stack. I commented out the command to load the replacement, and undid the unplugged ROM modules and…

Net:ListFS popped up the hourglass for a few moments while it looked for the server. It returned nothing, as the other machine is also running the new stack.

Restored the new stack and was back to:

*Net:ListFS
No access to network; restart computer to clear

I used the ‘FS list’ menu entry of NetFiler rather than a *Command though.

I think the only difference is the ease of copy-pasting the result. ;)

Consider yourself surprised.

Considered.
Wasn’t Acorn, in one of the patches (or somesuch?) a little less complimentary about Econet?

Short filenames in !Server suck a bit though.

Ditto using DOS and having to rememb~1 that it’s 8.3.

Just a shame there isn’t such a thing as a USB to ADLC dongle to connect to the old kit.

It’s the new stack.

Please report the bug – it’s the proper way to get it fixed.

I don’t remember how to do the bug tracker thing, so I sent an email instead…

Consider yourself surprised.

Considered.
Wasn’t Acorn, in one of the patches (or somesuch?) a little less complimentary about Econet?

The ROM patches said sod Econet which I think was more a reference to the slightly obscure register peek remote procedure call, rather than a wider besmirching of Econet. Afterall they did use up precious main system ROM space adding the Econet module (to avoid having to recall the EPROMs on the Econet NICs) for StrongARM.

Just a shame there isn’t such a thing as a USB to ADLC dongle to connect to the old kit.

If you have a Pi there’s an ADLC HAT and for Risc PC/A7k/A7k+ a NIC so that’s the top 2 most used RISC OS 5 targets covered in maximum retro appeal. The only other hardware with externally accessible holes to poke a DIN socket from are the Iyonix and Titanium, which would need something sitting on PCI – Warning! Bus overload!

I don’t remember how to do the bug tracker thing

The instructions are included in every zip of the new stack. I can vouch for the correctness and simplicity, having used the bug tracker quite a few times.

>If you have a Pi there’s an ADLC HAT

I am pretty sure they only have Linux drivers for that.
Its the pi on the left in this pix, adapter from Ken Low and then an ADF10

The Pi on the right is using a RasPi Pico with Andrew Gordon’s Econet line interface code.
It is running RISC OS and demonstrates packet exchange with BBC. My plan is to make a drop in replacement for the Econet module for it. Initially I will kludge the swi names in !awServer just to get that going. I might make a PCBA version with the full Econet line interface rather than cutting every corner that just using RS485 drivers does.

There could be a usb version, for my pinebook , it might look like this

Or PiZero

Also just to be pedantic, this thread was about AUN not Econet. Econet being the physical layer with the din plugs, and AUN being a udp/ip emulation of that over ethernet. ShareFS is not technically a AUN service as its not using Econet transport. Using awServer, Level4 or like NetFS services will be using Econet transports over either AUN or Econet.

There could be a usb version, for my pinebook , it might look like this

So… you’re using some sort of Arduino like device to provide both the USB interface and the ADLC functionality?

Nice.

Also just to be pedantic, this thread was about AUN not Econet.

To be even more pedantic (as the originator of the thread), it was about getting the Econet system working with contemporary hardware. This necessitates the use of AUN due to a lack of alternative options.

It would be nice to have the AUN transport for newer machines, along with a five-pin-DIN interface for the older ones. I’m not sure if this could run concurrently, or if something would need to act as a gateway and consider the old style setup as a separate net… (and if AUN could cope with being 1.xxx and carrying traffic for 2.xxx).

Rick,

I am just borrowing other peoples work who are much cleverer than me… mainly Andrew Gordon. He worked out how to implement the ADLC framing used by Econet with the PIO interface in the Raspi RP2040 micro controllers. So far I have exposed his api to the PI via the GPIO in a manor a bit like SCSI-1 without arbitration or select.

In the top picture the pi on the right has a hat with the standard raspi pico board, that is the one with some progress. The other two have a smaller PR2040 board and will use SPI in the case of the PI zero form factor or probably serial over usb to keep the drivers simple for the pinebook. Neither have been even powered up yet.

The pi on the left would do all the other things you want in an Econet to AUN bridge on linux. At the time their drivers were 32 bit and I installed it 64 bit by mistake and have all the PICO SDK stuff to build the code for the pico on the RISC OS Pi and I don’t want to reinstall all that for the moment. So I can’t speak for the bridge functionality also I don’t have a personal use case for that.

The bridge work is on stardot in this and other threads. https://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28176&sid=8676a6ef5be85d3fb9c0246fb0005cf8

The other loosely related thing I have on the back burner is to implement the DCI2 version of IP/Econet as a DCI4 module. There are two incompatible implementations of TCP/IP over Econet with the older being the more interesting since things like RISC iX talk it. I don’t know if Chris has considered writing ip/econet into his bridge so it could route tcp/ip for the econet as well but if he hasn’t I certainly have that in mind for RISC OS.

There have been mentions of a 68B54 emulation as an extension of the existing PICO implementation. If that came to pass I have designed my hardware such that it could then be a drop in replacement for the two board stack that the current linux implementation uses.

Oh and thank you for providing !awServer a home for the last 20 year or whatever it is. I have been thinking of putting it on github soon since I have been using it a bit lately and there are a few bug fixes now.

Pedantic? I knew you couldn’t resist :-)

Alan