Current BBC BASIC User Guide

Greetings to all BASIC programmers!
Where can I find an up-to-date user guide for BBC BASIC?
I have the old User Guide from the days of the BBC Micro, but it is lacking. For example, it doesn’t mention “ENDIF” which does work on the current BASIC V version 1.63 (24/1/2017). I only knew about ENDIF by running a program and getting the error “missing ENDIF”.
I could test various plausible keywords to check whether they work like “WHILE”, but it would be quicker to have an up-to-date user guide.

If you think I should be using a more structured language, please consider that I need to incorporate BASIC code into a (Joe Taylor’s) DrawScript program.

My copy of the BBC BASIC User Guide is from the Archimedes 400 Series, Issue 1, First published 1988, ISBN 1 85250 052 2. Does CJE have any copies?

Apart from paper copies, there is an online version at:

There are probably similar ROOL versions, possibly in PDF, but they escape me ATM.

Alternativly, you might be able to use my StrongHelp manual at:

This is more comprehensive than the current version supplied with StrongHelp by ROOL, but that would probably also give you a good overview.

My copy of the BBC BASIC User Guide is from the Archimedes 400 Series, Issue 1, First published 1988, ISBN 1 85250 052 2.

I just checked mine. It’s the same. Seems to work okay… 8~)

The 1992 version is available from 4corn. It’s slightly different from the one on riscos.com.

Thanks for prompt replies.

Steve, the first one you mention at riscos.com seems fine, but your StrongHelp manual crashed on my 21st century Pandaboard running RISC OS v5.23 (18/2/17). I got an opening page which looked odd to me for a StrongHelp manual which included links about creating an index or something; but anyway clicking on any of these links crashes StrongHelp. Suspecting that the manual may contain a 26-bit !Pre file, I found it contained !Pre^0 and !Pre^1 (I don’t know how this will come out in textile, but it’s meant to be plingPreSuperscript0 and plingPreSuperscript1) which are identical! I replaced these two with the recommended !Pre file for modern machines from the latest version of StrongHelp. Your manual now runs without crashing, thanks.

Chris M, the pdf maunal from 4corn is almost unreadable with either !pdf or !pdftest as it appears as black text ‘highlighted’ by dark grey with a page colour of a slightly lighter shade of grey! One has to turn off “images” in the “Display” menu to get black text on a white background for it to be readable. Before doing that I tried with GView and got the error message “pdf not understood (xref section interpretation error)”. :-(( Anyway, thanks for the link, it looks really useful.

I wonder what someone, new to RISC OS, knowing that BBC BASIC is built in to the OS and wanting to try it out on a Raspberry-Pi, will think when they look for a BBC BASIC Guide more up-to-date than the ancient one that came with the BBC Micro computer? Will they manage it or give up?

Steve, the first one you mention at riscos.com seems fine, but your StrongHelp manual crashed on my 21st century Pandaboard running RISC OS v5.23 (18/2/17).

Steve’s BASIC manual works fine here, also on a Pandaboard with RISC OS v5.23 (14/12/16).

I got an opening page which looked odd to me for a StrongHelp manual which included links about creating an index or something; but anyway clicking on any of these links crashes StrongHelp.

It sounds like you dragged the manual to StrongHelp’s iconbar icon instead of double-clicking it.

If you drag a manual to the iconbar icon you’ll get a special page allowing you to perform operations on the manual.

I replaced these two with the recommended !Pre file for modern machines from the latest version of StrongHelp.

For a !Pre file to be used its name must match ‘!Pre’ exactly so those in Steve’s manual won’t be used by StrongHelp.

The !Pre file that comes with the latest version of StrongHelp is only for manuals that document SWIs, which Steve’s doesn’t. It may have adverse effects when used with non-SWI manuals such as look-ups failing.

Chris M, the pdf maunal from 4corn is almost unreadable with either !pdf or !pdftest as it appears as black text ‘highlighted’ by dark grey with a page colour of a slightly lighter shade of grey!

In PDF turn off images and it looks a lot better, Menu → Display → No images

@Fred
Your last comment first.

In PDF turn off images and it looks a lot better, Menu → Display → No images

If you read my post carefully, I said just that.

As regards the StrongHelp BASIC manual, I have just tried reverting to what I first tried: StrongHelp V2.89 (15/1/17) and the BASIC manual as downloaded. Double-clicking on the BASIC manual causes the error message “StrongHelp may have gone wrong. Click Continue …. etc”. There is no difference if I run StrongHelp first. It was at this point that I tried again with V2.90 of StrongHelp and it then worked with Steve’s BASIC manual. There seems to be some incompatibility between V2.89 of StrongHelp and the BASIC manual as I have had no problem with other manuals. There is no mention of this problem in the “Changes” file of StrongHelp V2.90.

I haven’t encountered a difference before between dragging a file to the icon of the application on the iconbar and double-clicking on a file (to be read by that application). Is this common with StrongHelp?

@Steve
It would be interesting to know why there are the two identical ‘Pre’ (see previous post) files in the manual.

It would be interesting to know why there are the two identical ‘Pre’ files in the manual.

They are a hangover from a very long time ago. I think I was experimenting with PROC and FN lookups, but I cannot recall the details. They are, indeed, 26-bit and I should have deleted them, but they are harmless, as Fred says.

There seems to be some incompatibility between V2.89 of StrongHelp and the BASIC manual

I am sure Fred will explain, but I think with this version only there was a change that made my method of controlling the width of pages using a #Sprite command without a sprite name cause the error. It was made compatible again in v2.90.

I haven’t encountered a difference before between dragging a file to the icon of the application on the iconbar and double-clicking on a file (to be read by that application). Is this common with StrongHelp?

I think this has been so from the earliest versions. The primary reason was to provide a facility to compact SH files, which could grow enormously while editing. Other features have been added since.

Regarding that !Pre file, this is a quote from the manual itself:

The file !Pre does nothing at the moment, but I have used it to experiment with separating the lookup from the full definition, and might want to provide a way to lookup particular syntax types and operator combinations.

About this manual > Overview > Organisation

I wonder what someone, new to RISC OS, knowing that BBC BASIC is built in to the OS and wanting to try it out on a Raspberry-Pi, will think when they look for a BBC BASIC Guide more up-to-date than the ancient one that came with the BBC Micro computer?

Yes it is a pity that the BASIC User Guide is not included in the RC15 Pi distribution – the PRMs are. It is also a pity that RISC OS Ltd has barred the BASIC manual from downloading – it used to be available on line.

Steve, thanks for that explanation. Out of interest I dragged the manual to the StrongHelp (V2.90) iconbar icon and then clicked on the “Create a Contents page” link. A Contents file duly appeared inside the manual directory where there was none before.

I see that the problem I encountered and you allude to is mentioned in the “Announcements/StrongHelp 2.90 released” thread.

In PDF turn off images and it looks a lot better, Menu → Display → No images

If you read my post carefully, I said just that.

Yes, I see that now. Serves me right for posting a rushed reply when I was already on my way out.

There seems to be some incompatibility between V2.89 of StrongHelp and the BASIC manual as I have had no problem with other manuals.

As Steve’s already pointed out, it only affects manuals that use a #Sprite command which refers to a sprite that can’t be found. This bug was introduced in SH 2.89, while trying to fix another bug, and fixed in SH 2.90.

I think I was experimenting with PROC and FN lookups,

It seems that the idea was to remove the function name so that FN and PROC could be looked up as keywords.

Out of interest I dragged the manual to the StrongHelp (V2.90) iconbar icon and then clicked on the “Create a Contents page” link. A Contents file duly appeared inside the manual directory where there was none before.

But there is an !Index file, accessed from the top page. This is produced with my own program, Shindy, rather than the one provided with StrongHelp. You may guess which I prefer. ;-)

Yes it is a pity that the BASIC User Guide is not included in the RC15 Pi distribution – the PRMs are.

If you subscribed to Select the full set of manuals was provided in HTML and PDF. What would be the copyright status of those now?

If you subscribed to Select the full set of manuals was provided in HTML and PDF. What would be the copyright status of those now?

Held by either the original authors or their legal successors.
Depending upon any possible re-write by ROL of the original text from Acorn that would be either Castle¹ (through to ROOL) or Aaron (in his 3QD guise).
Basically the Acorn base content of any such file would be as available as Castle wish it to be. Do anything with ROL content (now 3qd content) and you may wish to engage legal representation.

On the subject of the latter the BASIC manual is available On-line from the 3QD pages.

¹ Original text would follow with other legal rights.
² Muddy waters, but the re-written bits would be “original content” in their own right, mixed with the base content.

But there is an !Index file

To me there is normally a difference between an Index (a straight list of references) and a Contents (a structured list of references). Your !Index is structured, so to me it is a Contents!

To me there is normally a difference between an Index (a straight list of references) and a Contents

Yes, it is an interesting question that I have pondered, especially for a hypertext document. ;-)

I agree that my Index is structured and should be called Contents, even if it has strong alphabetic aspects. At some point I decided this for myself and in later manuals, such as Basalt and VFP, that is what it is called. I have not gone back specially to change earlier ones.

My Shindy can also produce a List of pages, or Index, which is handy for editing, but is not made explicit. If you want a link it is ‘hidden’ on the ‘About this manual’ page. ;-)

Chris M, the pdf maunal from 4corn is almost unreadable with either !pdf or !pdftest

Ugh. Admittedly I didn’t test it on RISC OS; it works on my Mac and I just assumed that it’d work with PDF too.

Chris M, the pdf maunal from 4corn is almost unreadable with either !pdf or !pdftest

With !PDF try turning images off.

As regards the different results from double-clicking on the icon of a StrongHelp Manual and dragging the icon for the StrongHelp manual to the iconbar StrongHelp icon (see Fred Graute’s post of 8th May above), this is counter to what is stated in “Starting Applications” on p. 227 of the RISC OS 5 User Guide or p. 157 of the RISC OS 3 User Guide. I am not the only one to have been puzzled by this, as a long time user of RISC OS told me he wasn’t aware of this difference. So it seems that StrongHelp isn’t sticking to the RISC OS style.

The User Guide is referring to starting an application by dragging its icon from a Filer window to the iconbar. As far as I can see there’s no defined behaviour for dragging a document icon onto an application’s iconbar-icon.

The Style Guide does specify a behaviour for such a drag but only for editors, which StrongHelp isn’t. It seems that for non-editor applications the behaviour is up to the author, and StrongHelp’s behaviour is clearly described in its manual (under Navigating).

The interactive help doesn’t mention it though so that could be improved.

in “Starting Applications” on p. 227 of the RISC OS 5 User Guide

Page 227 is all about fontprint in the copy I have

Page 227 is all about fontprint in the copy I have

All anyone can really say there is that this reflects a development of expected behaviour.
The RO3 User guide list two methods of starting an application (on page 171), the RO3 style guide (with DDE24 which is only a few years old) lists just the double-click

Now we have a (mostly complete) new revision of User Guide listing three start methods and (don’t have a reference copy) the new Style Guide may possibly list all three listed in the User Guide.

Fred might like to re-work StrongHelp to use all three, but I wouldn’t really consider it a high priority since double-clicking a manual starts the associated application (if the application has been “seen” by the system.

One option for SE may be to simply add ‘Open manual’ to the menu presented when you drop a manual on the iconbar. Not that I think any change is really necessary!

Adding an option to open the manual seems sensible and is easy to add so I’ve just done that. Now quickly back to adjusting StrongED handling of bitmap fonts.