BREXIT

The whole story of the current BREXIT treaty … tells me that the EU’s interest (not to be confused with European interest or the people’s interest) was only one: to set an example, to make it clear to every EU member that it is a very bad idea to try to leave, and to make it as hard as possible for the UK to leave.

As someone on the naff end of the stick, I still can’t honestly blame them.

David Davis had TWO YEARS to come up with a plan and achieved the square root of f**k all (at great cost)

From comments on the EU side it would seem that DD might have made more progress if he’d actually made the effort to go and talk to them.
As I recall his replacement did more in a week than DD did in his whole time in that office.

and to make it as hard as possible for the UK to leave.

It was never going to be possible to agree to what the UK wanted, which amounted to the ultimate of cherry picking. I think it was quite sporting of the EU to reach any agreement at all. It was the British who are unable to agree on anything.

make the BREXIT has unfavourable for the UK as possible.

It isn’t unfavourable – the UK is walking away. It doesn’t get access to all the stuff it used to (especially as they don’t want to contribute anything at all).

The EU’s one and only direction was, quite simply, to favour and support the EU countries. That’s not the UK, when the UK is in the process of walking away.

Figures in power (unelected by the people, I might add)

Figures elected by the people who you do get to vote for, I might add.
Lest we forget, nobody “elected” Theresa May to be PM. Or Boris to be, uh, whatever the hell he is now. Or even decided on who is and isn’t a part of the European Research Group or why they have so much influence.
Some people are elected, the rest are appointed by some mechanism. Otherwise we’d have nothing but endless elections.

As to Juncker’s power in the EU, he’s basically a glorified civil servant. His people put together a deal, and then the MEPs (remember them? the ones we all voted for?) get to debate and discuss (that’s why this was supposed to have been sorted out last Autumn).
The trio (Juncker, Barnier, and the complicated-name one…Verhoffsted?) are trying to keep the EU27 in agreement, but it’s possible that Poland or somebody could veto the entire thing at the last minute. Because Juncker isn’t a god, he doesn’t wave his hand and make laws. You really need to read up on how the EU works and what the role of MEPs are.

are a very good reason to leave the EU

…says a person from a country that has done pretty well from the EU project…

The amount of incompetence and maliciousness is simply staggering, and they are basically unaccountable.

European Research Group.

Nigel F***ing Farage – who isn’t even an elected member of parliament, yet acts like he is.

basically impossible as it broke their self-imposed ‘red lines’.

Wasn’t it the Home Secretary’s impossible red lines about immigration control that basically messed up the “extra stuff” that David Cameron went to the EU for back in 2016?
Gee, who was HomeSec then?
Who has a tonne of red lines now?
Who is so unflexible and utterly lacking creative imagination that if her wretched deal doesn’t pass today, she’ll probably try a fifth time…?

David Davis had TWO YEARS to come up with a plan and achieved the square root of f**k all (at great cost)

And his successor, in a massive dose of “you couldn’t make it up”, managed to put together a deal which he then told everybody not to vote for!

Popping up on my news app – Brexiteers may consider trying to bring down the government if May gives so much as an inch on hard Brexit. And it’s not an April Fool…

Honest to God, bloody useless bloody effing aaAAAAARGH!

Germany’s Michael Roth – well said.

Germany’s Michael Roth – well said.

I’d ask which bit, but both the "big sh**show and the silver spoon remarks are about as close to the mark as you could get without micro measurements.
I suspect if you did an a***hole transplant on anyone of them the a***hole would reject the recipient.

I find TV and radio (especially news) are best avoided.
Watching the F1 highlights on Sunday probably more than doubled the viewing time for the week.

I disagree. Fake news can be a lot more subtle and insidious than a headline in a paper known for making up stuff.

My fault. I was also talking of news not sourced.
We tend to talk of fake news for a lot of things that are not.
The first – and probably only – characteristic of a fake news is the lack of source.

In many cases of ‘fake news’ I see highlighted, it’s only deemed to be fake because it doesn’t agree with the views of the person complaining about it. Like I see many people on the BBC comments complaining about BBC bias in favour of Brexit, and as many people complaining about the BBC bias against Brexit, or being left wing/right wing, etc. Trump is the ultimate in using the ‘fake news’ label to attempt to strike down anything he doesn’t agree with. What we tend to see now is many people who only accept what they believe as being valid, and anything of a different opinion or point of view is rubbish, wrong, lies, fake, invalid… There’s no longer a rational view, or any attempt to understand why someone else thinks differently to you or even seeing both sides of the argument.

It’s just like with Brexit, where every MP has their own interpretation of what they see to be the perfect vision and they won’t countenance anything that differs from their exact view. Like the May deal or not, it does at least make the attempt to compromise between as many of the differing views as possible. It’s not perfect, but no deal anyone could come up with would be. Not everyone who voted to leave wants a no-deal scenario. Going for the softest options is bad too, because we’ll end up with some of the benefits, much of the costs and the things that people wanted to get out from, but no say in the rules. The EU could make it difficult for our financial sector without us being able to stand up for it.

Does anyone think that if Corbyn was in charge there would be a magical deal that everyone could accept, and that all of his party would support? And would it command a majority in Parliament? It doesn’t matter who is in charge, who’s doing the negotiations, there is no chance that any one of the MPs would compromise and support a deal. Corbyn complains that May set too many red lines when negotiating, but wouldn’t talk to her unless she accepted his red lines… He walked out on a meeting when he finally did take part because Ummuna was there. He’s playing political games to try and bring about an election, he’s not doing it for the sake of the country. He’s got to be the worst potential Labour PM in waiting since Michael Foot.

What we tend to see now is many people who only accept what they believe as being valid, and anything of a different opinion or point of view is rubbish, wrong, lies, fake, invalid…

Hasn’t it basically been that through much of recorded human history? One could say The Crusades were a medieval brexit…

Going for the softest options is bad too,

One could also be worried about the angle of the next Tory PM, if they wouldn’t attempt to chip away at any specific arrangement in order to push towards a harder vision of Brexit?

without us being able to stand up for it.

As far as I see it, any leave option is pretty much that. Think carefully what the UK’s negotiating power is going to be, following years of chaos, a total inability of anybody to agree on anything, and the fact that it’ll be Britain holding the begging bowl, not the other way around.

Does anyone think that if Corbyn was in charge

The best thing Labour could do it get rid of him. It seems as if a lot of the party is pro-Remain (with some exceptions), however with a leader that is singularily incapable of making a decision… For all that May has been an utterly inflexible useless s**tshow of a PM, he’s been an utterly ineffective useless s**tshow of a so-called opposition. Both have failed.

there is no chance that any one of the MPs would compromise

I suspect a fair few are treating this as some sort of game. Remember, Rees-Mogg (for example) was never going to support anything other than a hard Brexit, then he aimed for a softer Brexit, then he hated May’s deal, then he was going to support the DUP, then…. The thing is that I fear a number of MPs are compromising on voting for the same thing as their friends and allies, and to hell with anything else. Wasn’t it Boris that called May’s deal “vasselage”, and now he supports it? Is it because he believes in May’s deal, or because he wants to butter up for his chances to be the next PM?

There’s also no point in compromising when the leader is an ineffectual waste of space. They openly contradict her to her face these days. Can you imagine Thatcher putting up with any of this?

Not going to argue with your analysis of Corbyn. We might have a shot at a Labour government and staying in Europe if somebody could take him out back and ready the firing squad…

What I see, most of all, is a group of self-important entitled ***kers looking for whatever option will get them the most coin, and to hell with the citizens that got suckered into starting this mess.

People have spoken of compromise. Here’s a suggestion:

Revoke Article 50, run through the whole process again with a plan in place before doing an Article 50
The only people benefiting at the moment are the Brexit profiteers – who I, and no doubt many Leave voters too, would like to see suffer financially and lose personal liberty for a while.

Oh, and alongside that get the EU to revise the terms so that it becomes the case that a plan must be in place before triggering. At least then other nations are spared the embarrassment involved.

Revoke Article 50, run through the whole process again with a plan in place before doing an Article 50

I like the idea, but how do you come up with a plan that that the EU will agree to without negotiating with them, I’d expect them to say they won’t negotiate until Article 50 has been initiated.

If parliament won’t agree to another referendum then how about the MPs being offered a range of options on a single transferable vote system, that way they would make a decision. The problem is what options to offer.
If it did come to another referendum then a range of options should be offered, again on a single transferable vote system. But the problem of what options to offer would still be there.

I like the idea, but how do you come up with a plan that that the EU will agree to without negotiating with them, I’d expect them to say they won’t negotiate until Article 50 has been initiated.

In order to avoid any future farce I’d expect the EU to demand a plan before triggering Article 50

But there was a plan before the referendum. We would tell the EU what we wanted and they would agree. There would be £350m per week for the NHS and free unicorns for everyone, even if they didn’t have the room to keep one. And if anyone thought that was unrealistic we’ll shout them down with ‘fake news’, ‘scaremongering’, ‘Project Fear’, ‘why don’t you believe in your country’, etc. If we rejected our salvation we would be overrun with Turks and other unsavoury oiks. There would be a magic money tree so fruitful that even Labour couldn’t imagine it. The whole world would come to us with open arms begging to buy our goods and services with a tug of the forelock. Of course, being so much fiction, no one would fall for it – would they?

I voted remain, not because it was the best option, but as the least worst. There’s plenty wrong with the EU, and it won’t be fixed any time soon. But on balance I think we are marginally better in than out. I’m sure a lot of people saw the margins slightly the other way and weren’t completely swayed by the baying of Johnson, Farage & Co. It was a democratic vote even if it was was under the rules of ‘he who shouts loudest is telling the truth’. Many people voted for the first time – my wife did, she never usually votes.

Russia now no longer needs to start a war to defeat the West, it helps us divide and conquer ourselves by getting us to vote for Trump and for Brexit.

Not going to argue with your analysis of Corbyn. We might have a shot at a Labour government and staying in Europe if somebody could take him out back and ready the firing squad

Seems someone in the British establishment has acted on your thoughts and started practicing.

Even they can’t get it right as they only used paint pellets , now that must have Russia worried.

Get our back up and we will come over and paint your countryside Blue.

I’d wait for the knock at your door from the thought control police as well :-)

Meanwhile in another universe in a vortex created in the houses of Parliament they continue to create yet more comedy moments and can’t even decide to vote to continue to take back control for yet another set of votes to come up with their own plan.

And this is the lot we are supposed to look forward to taking back control as the Brexit mantra goes.

But on balance I think we are marginally better in than out.

I think we’re a lot better in than out. And as this farce goes on, the UK is only going to be worse and worse off out.

There’s plenty wrong with the EU, and it won’t be fixed any time soon.

Agreed. But it’s our first try. Hell, even RISC OS (and Windows!) had to make it to the third incarnation before it was “good”. When EU 2.0 rolls around, it’ll be better. ;-)

No, seriously, what the EU is is unprecedented. That it works at all is pretty impressive, and that two countries embroiled in a nasty war, twice, are on good terms with each other is actually pretty bloody amazing. But, then, I see the EU as an imperfect but workable attempt at embracing togetherness and cooperation, not as this weird political entity where £350,000,000 gets flung every week.

has acted on your thoughts and started practicing.

Ooh, so if thinking can make it happen… Brexit will be cancelled, Brexit will be cancelled…

they only used paint pellets

Well, after bribing the DUP and the north east and pledging to drop a tonne of cash into the NHS (but spending it on “legal advice” instead), there’s no money left.

Britain’s defences are some seriously old nukes that nobody wants to touch in case they blow up in situ, and lots of nominated cannon fodder adorned with paintballs.

we will come over and painnt your countryside Blue.

Duh, red white and blue, remember?

Actually, that would work for France and Holland. Might annoy the Germans though, got any black and orange?

can’t even decide to vote to continue to take back control for yet another set of votes to come up with their own plan.

Yeah. I was shocked. Then angry. Then embarrassed. Then mortified. Then ashamed. Now I only shrug and say “doesn’t make sense to me either”. And believe me, quite a few work colleagues are now asking “WTAF is going on?!?”…

to taking back control

They are taking back control. That’s the problem.

Duh, red white and blue, remember?

Well Ministry of Defence procurement drew up the specification and then had it reviewed and they took out Red on account that it might upset people as it looked like blood.

They then took out the White after being told that it was to bland and that left Blue.

They also did extensive testing on the Blue colour and pellets and after lengthy delays were charged £250M for the first batch which had to be thrown away as the pellets didn’t match any guns so they had a re-specification and paid another £100M.

But don’t worry as the Ministry of Defence have done a deal with the Health department and they can have the first £350M we save once we are out of the EU.

A government spokeperson said “this exiciting development shows what is possible once we leave the hackles of the EU”

A spokesperson for Labour said “Once again the Tories rule out the most obvious choice”

Finally Mr Farage said “Who the Fxxx choose Blue , if we have no deal Brexit then this would not happen”

You know what’s really sad, Doug, is that given the way this past couple of years have been, there’s practically no difference between a good p***-take and reality. There’s nothing in your post that would even seem remarkable if it was a newspaper article…
<holds head in hands>

(-: The incompetence never stops! :-)

https://thebrexitparty.com/

(-: The incompetence never stops! :-)

The wife picked up on that from some twitbook chatter about the prize tit having not done the obvious at the right time, not looked at the site itself but I gather it paints them in an accurate light.

the prize tit having not done the obvious at the right time

He does have recent form in this area, having failed to register the .co.uk version of his marchtoleave.com a couple of months ago…

He does have recent form in this area, having failed to register the .co.uk version of his marchtoleave.com a couple of months ago…

Not having paid that much attention to him we were all assuming and hoping he was – leaving that is.
If he took all his mates as well things would be so much nicer.

I read recently that Lying Nigel is wanting to make another contribution to British politics.

The best contribution he could make is to leave British politics. He’s done far too much damage already.

Huge losses for the Tories, and May says it shows that people just want them to “get on with Brexit”.
It must be nice in her utterly different reality.

Huge losses for the Tories,

and sizable losses for Labour and the ‘kippers didn’t do well either.

All in all you have to say that what the UK public is saying is actually b***s to brexit and b***s to you lot that support it.

It must be nice in her utterly different reality.

She’s proably lined up for a high pay job with HuaWei – like the other ex-ministers in plum jobs.
Best government you can buy

Best government you can buy

Somebody paid for these clowns?!?

sizable losses for Labour

Because even though it seems the majority of Labour MPs want a second referendum, Corbyn is… as much in the land of shiny unicorns as May.

the ‘kippers didn’t do well either.

Doesn’t mean much, their supporters have probably defected to Effing Farage’s new toy, now that it’s clear that the ’kippers are racist nutjobs. Not that the new party is any better, mind you.

The forthcoming EU elections ought to be interesting.
Yet another election I can’t vote in – the French weren’t letting Brits register to vote as when that was to happen, the UK was intending to have already left the EU.

Silver lining #1: People are flocking to the LibDems. Yay! (guess who I support)

Silver lining #2: With a little luck (and candles, prayer, and sacrificial children) we might see a rout in the next election that will END the f***ing Tories. Well, I can hope…

…something from the demoscene for this topic on ZX Spectrum, also an invitro to a UK demo party ;-) Product here Video here

😂

I can only wish…