BREXIT

Well, we’re soon going to find out if the English are dumb enough to think that the solution to a decade of Tory mismanagement is… another five years of it.

Well, we’re soon going to find out if the English are dumb enough

There’s a chance one set of them aren’t dumb enough to suit Boris. Hopefully, enough.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50570468

I’m really hoping we don’t get Corbyn – or worse still, Corbyn backed by the Sturgeon.

I think that’s actually the best we can hope for. Not perfect, no, but one hell of a lot better than the only alternative.

Well, today I voted Labour for the first time in my life. Not because I like that waste of space Jeremy Corbyn or his policies, but because I really really really really want to NOT have a Conservative government (my slogan is Get Brexit Stopped), and, in my constituency, Labour has the only realistic hope of beating the Tory incumbent.

It occurred to me today that very roughly half of the votes cast in any election in this country are wasted. Unless you vote for the winning candidate in your constituency, your vote counts for nothing; it gets nobody any nearer to being elected.

But if we do ever get proportional representation, our MPs are going to have to be much more grown up about politics.

Well, today I voted Labour …

Thanks Dave – I was going to post, but you’ve said it all!

my slogan is Get Brexit Stopped

I hope we’re not too late!

If I could vote, I would have voted Labour.

I detest Corbyn. Quite a lot of this unbelievable 💩show is because he is a completely useless piece of 💩 and utterly utterly wasted as “the opposition”. I really don’t understand why the party can’t kick him out. Him and that Abbott woman (who is so awful she makes Boris look intelligent).

So why would I vote Labour? Even when I’m a LibDem at heart? Simple. This is no longer about voting for who one wants, it’s about voting for who one doesn’t want. And like it or not, votes to Labour are the only way to properly give to Tories a kicking where it hurts.

As for all the anti-semitic terrorist-loving lunacy that Corbyn could bring to the UK… Is it really likely to be worse than a serial liar who wants MPs to pledge allegiance to him rather than to the country they are supposed to be serving? You know Brexit is going nowhere good, right? You know it’s 💩s like him and the ERG cronies who will ultimately cash in from your misery, right? You know they’re backed by a small number of wealthy people who would look forward to the dissolution of workers rights, right?
There’s no good solution. Only less bad ones. And that, I’m afraid, is anything other than the current Tory party.

What.

Thursday 12th December inevitably followed by Friday 13th!

What.

Rejoice, you’re not here.

Thank god it’s not Momentum/Labour!

I didn’t vote, so probably don’t deserve to comment (even as a conservative small business owner, I couldn’t in good conscience vote for Boris, Corbyn is a disaster, and the Lib Dems are basically non-existant in Warrington). However, I tend to agree with Grahame on this.

With the Conservatives committing political hari-kari left right and centre, and lurching to the right (cough, mid-1990s re-run), all Corbyn needed to do was follow Tony Blair’s “everything to everyone” centre-ground rhetoric with a clear policy on Brexit (we could have certainly done with a blast of “Things can only get better” song). Instead, we got the labour party manifesto right out of Kinnock-era 1980s – all we needed was another coal-miners strike. Oh wait, we don’t have any coal miners any more. It didn’t fly then, and it didn’t fly now. Many of the vote winning policies from 2017 were ditched, which made no sense to me at all.

A hung parliament would have been a really bad situation (as we saw with Teresa May), so we’re left with what we’ve got. I just wish the Lib Dems were a stronger 3rd party generally, so that people would have had a clearer choice for a Remain vote. As it stands, I’m glad I didn’t vote, but don’t really see that there was (realistically) a better option than what we have. All I can hope is that, just as Churchill fell out of favour after the war, Boris follows after Brexit.

My biggest concern is actually not Brexit, but the state of the Union as a whole. But don’t get me started on that. The UK needs to stand together, and instead we’re devolving fast. I want to live in the United Kingdom, not the Kingdom (that’s a pun and a movie reference – imdb The Kingdom).

It’s not so bad for most of you, things will quieten down now.

Up here north of the border it will be just starting, with Sturgeon and her merry men banging on about another indyref!

Has she ever stopped?

It’s not so bad for most of you, things will quieten down now.

Somehow I doubt that. The only time Johnson is quiet is when he doesn’t want you to remember something he said or promised.

banging on about another indyref!

And why not? The English don’t get to change everything and claim nothing has changed. Today is a very different scenario to what it was prior to the first indyref.

I, for one, support the Scottish growing a pair and telling their neighbours in the south to stuff it.

And, looking at this map, I think I can make three predictions:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/dec/12/uk-general-election-2019-full-results-live-labour-conservatives-tories

1, Brexit will now happen.

2, It won’t even remotely resemble what people thought they were voting for in 2016.

3, The Union will be finished in my lifetime. Possibly even before I retire.

If indyref2 does happen, and she gets, let’s say 52% in favour of independence – will she allow a second, second referendum?

And what about the views of the rest of the Union?

If indyref2 does happen, and she gets, let’s say 52% in favour of independence – will she allow a second, second referendum?

Ah – you mean like Boris the Lying Buffoon advocated?

And what about the views of the rest of the Union?

Is that the European Union? Ho, ho, ho!

I agree with Rick on all that.

We’re in the process of emigrating to Scotland. Even if Scotland doesn’t manage to unshackle itself from Westminster, the sociopolitical atmosphere there is a hell of a lot pleasanter. The atmosphere in England has turned really nasty in the last few years. (My wife is an immigrant – not from the EU, but do brexiters understand the differences? Mostly not. Two of our best friends are immigrants, one German, one Finnish/Chinese. They’re planning to leave England. Our daughter, married to a German and living in Berlin, fortunately has got dual nationality – just in time.)

To be honest, I think my wife, Steph, has it about right. Remember she’s originally from the US. Her words this morning – “no matter where you go, it just the same nonesense – you can’t escape it”. She has Trump back home, and now she’s got citizenship here, she’s landed with Boris. The world moves in trends, and I guess that in an internet-connected age, wherever you go, it always ends up being similar. We’ve noticed this in all sorts of ways – even when we visit the Netherlands for the Dutch show – everywhere feels like “greater America”, with a Starbucks on every corner.

wherever you go, it always ends up being similar

A friend of mine said years ago: “No matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.”

So, in all too short a time, all the freedom, all the ease we’ve known these last forty-odd years will be deleted, at the stroke of a pen.

It’s all too depressing.

no matter where you go, it just the same nonesense – you can’t escape it

Permanently? No, you can’t escape it. But while it’s liable to be just the same at some unpredictable point in the future wherever you go, it’s not the same everywhere all the time; there are usually at least a few places where it’s different for a while. England used to be far nicer than it is today; currently Scotland is far nicer than England. How long for? Who knows?

If indyref2 does happen, and she gets, let’s say 52% in favour of independence – will she allow a second, second referendum?

Possibly not necessary – because hopefully Scotland’s referendum will be better drafted than to determine a massive change to the country’s place in the world based upon a simple 50%-or-more of whoever bothers to vote on an advisory referendum.
That’s not how referenda usually work – because all of Brexit is due to the choice of about a quarter of the population, or about a third of the registered electorate.

If IndyRef2 is qualified as 52% of those eligible to vote choose independence, then yes, the result should stand. Because 52% of those who can vote is often a very different thing to 52% of those who did vote.

And, as I said, England (mostly) have greatly changed things. To the point where all that was said around the time of the first IndyRef can be considered null and void.

For sure, I’ll happily support a second second IndyRef (or IndyRef3) should the English subsequently decide that they really do want to be a part of the EU again. :-)

So, in all too short a time, all the freedom, all the ease we’ve known these last forty-odd years will be deleted, at the stroke of a pen.

Against my wishes, against my will, and without me even having the ability to express any say in the matter.
It’s more than depressing. I’m literally having half of my identity torn away. And not the half I wouldn’t miss.

Rejoice, you’re not here.

But I’m not (politically) far enough away that this doesn’t affect me.

but do brexiters understand the differences? Mostly not.

I think this election shows the capability of Brexiteer understanding. I mean, if Boris crashes out and tries to fall onto WTO terms… uh… exactly who is going to get screwed? Trust me, it won’t be Boris. Or any of the ERG. It’ll be the formerly-employed blue-collar.

currently Scotland is far nicer than England. How long for? Who knows?

I could say the same about France. Even if they do go on strike over, well, anything and everything.

Just noticed Le Pen on TV offering words of wisdom. It’s easy to be wise when one isn’t actually in charge of anything

currently Scotland is far nicer than England. How long for? Who knows?

I could say the same about France.

I think you could say much the same thing about almost anywhere in the EU – apart from probably Hungary. But some of us probably won’t get the choice to live in the EU after Brexit.