Is RiscOS daily driver material?

So I have just joined the forums as of today, but I’ve played around with Risc OS in the past when the Raspberry Pi 2 was released. I recently put RiscOS back on to my Raspberry Pi 3b+ and am using it to type out this entry and get a feel for how things work. Given that the web browser for RiscOS can’t access some modern sites or doesn’t display them properly, I wonder does anyone use RiscOS as their main desktop operating system? If so, why? If not, also why?

I have a Mac that I use as my main computer. For many things it’s better, but there are a few things RISCOS is better for, and a few things that are equally happy on either, whichever I happen to be using already. Best way to say what’s what is this: http://clive.semmens.org.uk/RISCOS/AppsQ.html (Apps Queries)

I recently put RiscOS back on to my Raspberry Pi 3b+ and am using it to type out this entry and get a feel for how things work. Given that the web browser for RiscOS can’t access some modern sites or doesn’t display them properly,

First welcome to the forums, Regarding web browsers, I assume you are talking about !NetSurf, this is be developed by volunteers, and updated almost daily.

But there are currently two other browsers available, Otter and Qupzilla, both ported from Linux I think, but they have more modern features but also consume large amounts of memory and not exactly the fastest as a result. But RISCOS Developments who are the owners of RISC OS now are developing two new browsers native to RISC OS called Iris and OWB. Investors in RISCOS Developemnts have had preview versions for awhile now and I think at least Iris will be released soon for everyone. This should make browsing better for those users on more modern computers.

I wonder does anyone use RiscOS as their main desktop operating system?

I do. But not for web tasks.

If so, why?

Personal choice.

If not, also why?

Lack of good web browser :)

I wonder does anyone use RiscOS as their main desktop operating system?

Yes, for some things. DTP, vector graphics (and by extension things like stage set design work), my accounts¹. Oh, and creating copy for professional printing, usually via ArtWorks.

What don’t I use it for? The internet (I’m typing this in Firefox, and email is split between Thunderbird and Messenger Pro for Linux), photography, software development. The latter, a little perversely, includes RISC OS software development: all of my RISC OS applications are developed under Linux, with testing done on either RPCEmu or a real RISC OS machine across the network.

If so, why? If not, also why?

In the case of the DTP and graphics, because I’ve yet to find tools on other platforms that work as well for “low-end serious” stuff as Ovation Pro and ArtWorks. In the case of my accounts, because having written the software that I use on RISC OS, it does what I want it to (mostly – there is a wish list).

Why don’t I use RISC OS for other stuff? Because other platforms do it better, or easier, or something else. Using two systems in parallel isn’t hard these days, so use each for their strengths (or because it’s fun).

¹ It could be awkward for CashBook if I admitted to using GnuCash, I suspect. :-)

vector graphics

Yup! Although I actually use !Draw not ArtWorks.

I don’t really do DTP any more, and the compatibility with other people’s systems means I use LibreOffice on the Mac for word-processing-with-a-bit-of-formatting-&-layout.

does anyone use RiscOS as their main desktop operating system?

Yes

If so, why?

software that’s easy to use and not over-specified. So Ovation Pro for DTP for example – blows the socks off anything Office can do, for less money. Pipedream for spreadsheet.

If not, also why?

Fireworks for browsing, Gimp for graphics processing. Videopad for video editing. Recently Zoom.

But there are currently two other browsers available, Otter and Qupzilla, both ported from Linux I think, but they have more modern features but also consume large amounts of memory and not exactly the fastest as a result. But RISCOS Developments who are the owners of RISC OS now are developing two new browsers native to RISC OS called Iris and OWB. Investors in RISCOS Developemnts have had preview versions for awhile now and I think at least Iris will be released soon for everyone. This should make browsing better for those users on more modern computer bq.

I may need to give Iris a try when it comes out.

Yes, for some things. DTP, vector graphics (and by extension things like stage set design work), my accounts1. Oh, and creating copy for professional printing, usually via ArtWorks bq.

What is DTP?

What is DTP?

Desk Top Publishing – like word processing, but with better control of image insertion, page layout, footnote and endnote handling, contents table and index generation, etc.

What is DTP?

As Clive says, Desk Top Publishing.

In my case, producing stuff like this, using the rather excellent Ovation Pro.

I’m led to believe that there’s a package called Impression X around, too, which some people seem to like. Both cost money.

Both packages developed from earlier, far less capable packages called Ovation and Impression Style — which are both free downloads from the !Store app on your Pi.

For the books I produce, Impression Style would probably do me fine, but LibreOffice on the Mac does me fine too – and is probably more compatible with the software used by anyone I’m submitting my work to 8~(

I was very happy using Impression Publisher Plus back in the days when I ran an office producing academic journals, but that’s 23 years ago – we were giving CRC (Camera Ready Copy) to Cambridge University Press for them to print from. Times change…

I wonder does anyone use RiscOS as their main desktop operating system?

Primarily, yes. But I don’t really use desktop devices that much these days. A lot of what I do is using my phone or tablet. I’m writing this on Firefox on the tablet, while sitting outside in the evening, under the shade of a tree. ;-)

Listening to streaming radio, playing music, watching Netflix, browsing, blah blah, I just find it’s usually less hassle to do these things on something running Android. Especially given as it’ll work with Bluetooth headphones, work just as happily off WiFi or 3G/4G, and keep on working when I’m clanking down the road towards town. Well, not watching Netflix… for obvious reasons!

I still use my PC from time to time, as WinSCP is the only thing that allows me to log in to my website; and a bundled-on-the-front-of-a-magazine program called “ULead PhotoImpact 5” is my photo editor of choice. It has damn-near everything I could want ¹ and it’s much more powerful than PhotoDesk.

But, alas, it requires a machine that burns through ~200W when in use. Given that my main desktop computer use these days is writing programs from time to time, it makes sense to revert to RISC OS. A platform that helps you get stuff done without fighting the OS at every turn.

¹ The seemingly weird omission is the complete lack of GIF support (it does PNGs). However, whhen this software was created, GIF was still in the midst of a patent nightmare, so some companies that would have created GIFs (instead of simply rendering them) decided to simply ignore the format entirely.

like word processing, but with better control of image insertion, page layout, footnote and endnote handling, contents table and index generation, etc.

I’m not sure I agree, as Google Docs can do that, as can – I’d imagine, most competent word processors these days.

I think a better way to descibe DTP is to say it is like a word processor but it revolves around frames. Words and pictures can be put into frames, and frames can be put into other frames.

What differentiates DTP from WP is that WP usually has a single frame representing a page, you might be able to have columns, but generally it’s a page sized frame.

DTP, on the other hand, does not have such constraints. Early DTP allows fairly flexible frame placement. More recent DTP allows frames of various shapes which don’t even need to be the right way up.

This, for example: https://riscos.fr/frob31/

It was created using OvationPro on RISC OS. You can see what I mean about the non-rectangle non-straight frame use in the upper right of the picture; plus the front page was made by layering frames on top of other frames to achieve what I wanted.

Yup, I agree, that’s a better description. And basically explains why a good word processor – LibreOffice’s for me – is all I want nowadays.

With what I’ve read and seen regarding Iris Web Browser, it may solve a lot of the issues I have with using RiscOS as a daily driver. I could log into a music streaming service and write documents through Google docs, if multi-core support is ever added, it could also improve the quality of life for the operating system.

and write documents through Google docs

I wouldn’t hold your breath. Docs is slow on a 1GHz quad core tablet, and astonishingly the app version seems to be worse than the website version (to the point where the app, in Print Preview mode can’t keep up with my typing). But then I need to run the website one on Firefox on order to fool it into thinking it’s a PC and behaving correctly.

And, anyway, print preview. Oh my. Web != App != What appears in a generated PDF / on paper.

[speaking as somebody who’s written half of a novel(ette) in Docs, along with a user guide, and a dozen other things along the way]

I could log into a music streaming service

Unless you mean a subscription service, you’re likely to get better results by plucking out the streaming URL and handing it to a dedicated player.
For instance, on Android I use the small and simple “CustomRadioPlayer”, and on RISC OS, DigitalCD.

I was as big an advocate of RISC OS as they come, but it stopped being a daily driver for me soon after I got the original EEE PC back in early 2008. The key issues being unchained from the desk to be able to read email and web browse with a browser which worked on all sites, even on a very limited Linux laptop.

RISC OS remains my favourite OS, and is my go to system for doing any graphics work on, using applications I know like the back of my hand. But aside from web based stuff, my other great interest is programming and I’m afraid I’ve been too spoiled in the day job using IDEs on Linux and particularly Visual Studio on Windows to be able to enjoy the painfully primitive process of debugging software on RISC OS.

So what would be needed to make RISC OS the daily driver?

1. Yes we have a RISC OS laptop, but it needs a WiFi stack to be any use.
2. Yes better browsers are being ported, but the limitations of the underlying OS make this difficult and the performance is poor.
3. We need better development tools to aid the debugging of RISC OS software, then 1 and 2 will become easier.

I think we are going to need to support multicore CPUs – all the RISC OS machines have them, but we only use one core. That’s not going to be an easy step to take but it seems that the way CPUs improve nowadays is more core rather than more mhz.

I have the Armbook and the lack of Wifi is a big problem, and coupled to that the limits of the web browsers makes it hard to use my Armbook (in RISC OS) for “general computing” stuff.

On the other hand a few years ago I did our daugthers 4th birthday invites using RISC OS. I am sure I could’ve done them on Linux or Windows too, but I knew how to do it on RISC OS so that’s what I did :)

On the other hand a few years ago I did our daugthers 4th birthday invites using RISC OS. I am sure I could’ve done them on Linux or Windows too, but I knew how to do it on RISC OS so that’s what I did :)

What program(s) did you use?

Mainly Poster, a 4mation title from the 90s.

The honest answer is no. Unless you’re someone who’s been using RISC OS since the 90s or whenever and know it like the back of your hand or use it for some specific legacy purpose or something, for any practical use I don’t really see any reason to use RISC OS over Linux. It’s just really crummy 1980s technology with an uncertain future.

I don’t mean to be a jerk, I like RISC OS for nostalgic reasons and for BBC BASIC leisure programming and I hope it’ll hang around for many years to come, but thinking practically I don’t think it’s really a good idea to use it for anything serious.

Well, RISC OS is the main system here, just got a second monitor so running both Ti and ARMX6 now. For things that doesn’t work in RISC OS I use my iPad and that is mostly skype.

I don’t think someone would go from zero to full usage at this time, but as mentioned on last ROUGUL zoom there are a lot if pi users. Desktop linux on ARM is generally a pain compared to running on X86_64. RISC OS is currently the only desktop for ARM that is fast enough.

I have used RISC OS since the late nineties, but did start wihout any knoledge about the system. I came from using Amiga as my only (and I mean that I didnt have a pc or mac) system. Then I started to read comp.sys.acorn.* , liked that. Took a bank loan and bought a brand new RiscPC!

As a side note, I will get my latest RiscPC from that era back next week! A Kinetic 300, with 586 card and usb podule.

But to stay to topic:

RISC OS is something special, has a lot of good dtp and text programs. So if you are into doing a lot of work with related to that, RISC OS is for you.

However if you only use computers for Facebook and YouTube , RISC OS is not for you.

Long rant , but this is Aldershot :D