My First COVID vaccination
GavinWraith (26) 1563 posts | |
Clive Semmens (2335) 3276 posts |
Thank you for that, Gavin. Very interesting. I rather suspect arrangements in Scotland may be better organized. I had my first flu vaccination in the town hall here in Greenock a few weeks ago; all very smoothly and efficiently run. Grace (my wife) had hers last week. |
GavinWraith (26) 1563 posts |
My wife and I had our flu vaccination in September at the same venue. No queue, all done in four minutes. I think the problems this Wednesday were down to the special handling requirements of the Pfizer vaccine and the inexperience of the staff. The staff were as helpful as they could be in the difficult circumstances, and I surmise that the elderly patients’ patience could be explained by an unwillingness to hurt the feelings of young people who were doing their best. This trope must be very common, I think. |
Clive Semmens (2335) 3276 posts |
:thumbup: For sure, I wasn’t intending any criticism of the people on the front line. In England as in Scotland, they’re ordinary people doing their best. Any difference between England and Scotland is at government level. |
Steve Pampling (1551) 8155 posts |
Apparently one of the Anti-vaxers said on a social media platform “you can stick the vaccine up your ar**” Now as you know I’m not medically qualified but my contacts tell me that doesn’t match normal vaccination protocols, but hey if it floats their boat… and after that small item, more seriously, there have been no delays in our facility which is indoors – the SODA1 ward is a “temporary”2 vaccination clinic. Up the road the health centre was doing flu jabs. The wife was given a 4-minute slot (do not arrive early). In one door and out another to maintain social distancing. 1 Surgery On Day of Admission 2 Temporary is rather flexible these days, as is the use of various parts of the buildings. A complete floor of the Research Wing of the teaching facilities used to be research and occupied by University staff, but it’s currently “the Covid Lab” and a couple of allied items. 3 Setting up the latest system and links and then the next weeks latest and so on, has been a feature of my departments activity since the pandemic started. I was even involved in some discussion while at home and unable to see – which gave the grey cells a little work out, for which I was grateful. |
David Feugey (2125) 2709 posts |
I can’t imagine the pain trying to stick the vaccine up your ass :) |
Colin Ferris (399) 1809 posts |
Shouldn’t that be ‘vaccine up my’ |
Grahame Parish (436) 480 posts |
In the words of Badfinger – “If you want it, here it is, come and get it…” |
Steve Pampling (1551) 8155 posts |
Speaking in the third person @DavidS
One word: suppositories I have a feeling a greater degree of comfort might be achieved if they make sure it’s not still at the storage temperature if they want to try that approach. :) |
Clive Semmens (2335) 3276 posts |
Exactly as in Greenock, but ours were being done in the council chamber in the town hall. The Covid vaccinations are being done in the hospital, which happily is a five minute walk from home. But at only 71 I’m quite a way down the list, and Grace at 64 even further down. |
David Feugey (2125) 2709 posts |
Or have a needle on one end :) |
GavinWraith (26) 1563 posts |
@ Cirus |
jan de boer (472) 78 posts |
it’s medical, a protocol for preventing and treating COVID-19. (Medical people would find mathematics way more difficult to read!). It proposes a combination of keeping distance, wearing a face mask, washing hands, vitamin C, D and zinc, some more therapeutics and a cheap antibiotic against, mainly tropical, intestinal parasites, ivermectin. As is the case for hydroxychloroquine there is less hope than in April that this is a wonder drug, and it can have its side effects – consult your GP. Wikipedia has more on ivermectin, for a start. Most of its other recommendations do make sense, see for instance www.news-medical.net to keep ahead of all the news |
David Feugey (2125) 2709 posts |
For now, the Ivermectin did not prove clearly to be efficient. The studies are still too weak. |
Clive Semmens (2335) 3276 posts |
It’s not really the studies that are weak, it’s the medication that’s too weak (like probably zero) to show up in the studies. Of course the manufacturers would love to have another sales channel, so the waters will get well muddied for as long as possible. (Five and a half years running the office that produced a couple of relevant journals was quite an eye opener…) |
Clive Semmens (2335) 3276 posts |
Nice, relevant cartoon from xkcd yesterday: https://xkcd.com/2400/ |
David Feugey (2125) 2709 posts |
I mean, the results of the studies. |
Clive Semmens (2335) 3276 posts |
No. There is certainly a risk that the immunity conferred by the vaccine won’t last very long; it’s possible to be revaccinated at intervals if that’s the case – as it is with several existing, well-established vaccines. There is certainly also a risk that the vaccine will have negative consequences, possibly serious ones, in the future. Ideally, this would be avoided by doing long-term tests of the kind I presume you’re envisaging. There is a balance of risk here, however: the alternative is to let the pandemic run its course, with the enormous loss of life that would entail. No, I wouldn’t trust the pharmaceutical companies to judge that balance for me; but yes, I do trust the regulators to do it. No, the regulators aren’t perfect, but they know more about the question than I do (or you do), and I believe them to be honestly doing their best. |
GavinWraith (26) 1563 posts |
I also. I will not be cajoled into irresponsible paranoia. When I was small I was a difficult child, and only with reluctance admitted to being a member of the human race. As I grew older I perceived that between bolshiness and passivity there was plenty of space for growing up. |
Clive Semmens (2335) 3276 posts |
There have? I think I’d have heard them if they came from the people actually doing the testing. All I’ve heard is that they don’t know how long it will last yet – that is, most people who’ve had the vaccine haven’t contracted Covid. It’s worth noticing also that of those few who have contracted Covid, none have been seriously ill. The general expectation is that immunity will last at least a couple of years, and may be lifelong – for most, but not all, recipients. |
Clive Semmens (2335) 3276 posts |
This is true; but no vaccine in the history of medicine has worked in the way that either the Pfizer or the Astra-Zeneca vaccine work. Nonetheless, it may well be true of these vaccines too, it remains to be seen. The immunity conferred on patients who have had Covid appears to be at least ten months, and possibly lifelong, in the majority of cases. There have been cases of reinfection, but that’s (obviously) in individuals in whom the immunity didn’t last very long. Exactly what percentage of the population that is true of is not yet known, as far as I’ve seen – but it must be quite low, or it would be known by now. |
Clive Semmens (2335) 3276 posts |
It’s not ten months on the vaccine, it’s at least ten months immunity from having the disease – and that’s on the basis that most people who’ve had the disease have not had it again. |
Steve Pampling (1551) 8155 posts |
Stepping away from SARS-COV-2 to something with a longer study time: Returning to SARS-COV-2: Bear in mind the virologists have been studying the Corona virus family for decades, the patterns are known. The main thing to consider when looking at vaccination, or naturally acquired immunity, is the effect generating this is exposure to a sub-critical viral load. In naturally acquired immunity multiple small doses of the any virus trigger a learned reaction from the immune system. If you have a compromised immune system, illness or age, that learning doesn’t work so well and the vaccine isn’t going to do enough teaching. Then you have a problem.
Of course it is, you just need to be repeatedly exposed to a sub-critical dose and repeat that forever to maintain the status of your immune system. |
John McCartney (426) 143 posts |
If you admit that there isn’t sufficient data, why on earth do you keep arguing about the length of time for which immunity is conferred? I’m sure that you must have more important things to do considering the wide variety of topics upon which you post. |
Steve Pampling (1551) 8155 posts |
I chose a corona virus to compare with a corona virus
Sub-critical viral loading. I used the phrase quite deliberately. Of course it is, you just need to be repeatedly exposed to a sub-critical dose and repeat that forever to maintain the status of your immune system. No it isn’t, it’s just exposure to a sub-critical viral load. Vaccination is a method of achieving a controlled exposure to an agent that might be a debilitated form of the actual infective agent or a similar agent – like the agent used for smallpox, derived from cowpox.
Actually, you’re saying that it might be 45 days or longer but until there is more data over a long period then any statement of a specific period is unproven. I said that stating only a matter of days is tosh, I also said that statements of times over 10 months is speculation. Statement of fact: the whole time period of study is too short. One thing I know to be a fact: A patient recovering from Covid can suffer a relapse into various of the Covid symptoms on more than one occasion in the months after the primary bout of illness. This does not require that the patient is re-infected. |