MRI scan

Had an MRI scan today.

An experience not particularly well-described in the “infos”.

If anyone is about to undergo such a thing, I could describe my experience to them.

petit.four.(at).free.fr

May allay fears, prepare for what is an unusual experience!

Less stressful than anticipated, but better with “notes”, perhaps!

John

I had an MRI scan this summer and am scheduled for another in January. I actually enjoyed the experience, but that may be just me. Happy to answer any questions, either here, by mail or on ChatCube.

Some mom wisdom:

• MRI isn’t a big deal. It’s a noisy thing – weird clicks and hums and buzzes – but that’s just how it is.
• Because of all the magnets, no pacemakers and possibly no metal implants (depends upon the nature of the implant and scan).
• It is a non invasive scan that passes radio waves through the body. You just lie down, it clunks a lot, and that’s it. When it’s done, you get up and walk away, no side effects.
• I’d need to be knocked out beforehand. Not because I’m scared of the thing, but because you cannot move and she doesn’t think I’d be able to remain motionless for that long (she’s probably right).

• PET-CT scans are an entirely different proposition. While the actual thing is like a quieter version of the MRI, it works entirely differently. If full body, you need to have radioactive iodine injected just prior to being scanned, and be well prepared that a few moments afterwards you will either feel like your body is on fire or freezing cold or both. It’ll pass after a couple of minutes but it’s a freaky feeling. Plus, be prepared also that how you react once isn’t necessarily how you’ll react the next time.
• Additionally, having more than three full body PET scans in the course of a year would be highly unusual and means that the nature of your illness outweighs the risks of the amount of radiology being stuck into you.
• They’re both hideously expensive to run and maintain, so a reasonably superior doctor will need to be certain the results of the scan will be beneficial. Expect to see a lot of cancer patients around the PET scanner, as it’s the primary way of diagnosing cancer still in the body (the iodine bonds with blood sugars around cancer cells so it shows up as bright white blotches).
• Because of the nature of the iodine injection, don’t attempt to drive yourself gone afterwards. You’ll be utterly zonked.

After a pancreatic cyst a few years ago I had a whole series of scans for the first time – ultrasound, X-ray, MRI, CT and endoscopy. A couple of the MRI scans included an injection of Gadolinium during the scan via a cannula in the arm to give contrast. They inform you that the injection is about to happen and within a second or two there’s a very warm feeling in the groin as if you’d wet yourself!

For the endoscopy (oral) I was given a sedative to relax me to make it easier. The nurse said it will be like a G&T. I had the injection, the guide piece was put in my mouth and I laid on my side on the bed. Next thing I knew, I was waking up in a side ward – I know nothing about the camera going into me at all. If that’s what G&T does to me, I’m steering clear of them!

I’m ok with MRIs. It’s angiograms that disturb me. Having a complete stranger manhandling one’s testicles whilst wielding a scalpel. The next bit’s ok, watching the pretty pictures of my brain under sedative & oxygen.

Next!

It is a non invasive scan that passes radio waves through the body. You just lie down, it clunks a lot, and that’s it.

It’s sitting inside a ring magnet with a pulsed electromagnetic field applied at an angle to the base magnetic field provided by the ring magnet.

The atomic nuclei spin and thus generate a small field which aligns with the high strength applied field (static) or the electromagnetically generated field (dynamic).

The application and release of the dynamic field results in a change of the spin pole direction which is known as Larmor precession during which the nucleus emits a pulse of energy with a frequency determined by the size of the nucleus (basic which element) and the bonds to adjacent atoms.
1976 and students would do NMR tests on chemical samples that were spun at high speed in a fixed field, apparently patients complain if you do this so NMRI¹ was designed to move the field and not the “sample”
To get a 2D slice they use more detectors and Fast Fourier Analysis to calculate the location of each element of the picture.

¹ Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imaging – people didn’t like “Nuclear” so they dropped the “N”

It’s angiograms that disturb me. Having a complete stranger manhandling one’s testicles whilst wielding a scalpel.

They don’t absolutely have to go in through the groin, but it’s a convenient entry point for most purposes. “Medical dyno-rod” I called it when speaking to a former head of the Cardiac Catheter Suite, shortly after he’d put IT down as low-level admin support.

The next bit’s ok, watching the pretty pictures of my brain under sedative & oxygen.

“Brain” … “angiogram” ?? Thinking with your heart?, still with the starting point of the dyno-rod it could be worse :)

samples that were spun at high speed in a fixed field, apparently patients complain if you do this

Which is medical speak for:

• A third of the patients would freak out
• A third of the patients would throw up
• And a third of the patients would refuse to get out until they’ve had another go

;-)

“Brain” … “angiogram” ??

Yup. It can be used to check the blood vessels in the brain too.

Yup. It can be used to check the blood vessels in the brain too.

I was expecting the heart because of the starting point, I thought they went in around the armpit for the head work.
Still, it’s over 20 years since I went near any of that stuff¹ in use so what do I know.

¹ The last time I saw the inside of one of our operating theatres was the week before Christmas, and I was sat on my sofa while a departmental colleague showed me the problem over Teams on his smartphone.

To get a 2D slice they use more detectors and Fast Fourier Analysis to calculate the location of each element of the picture.

So bloody cool! The fact that the image is taken directly in the Fourier plane is just delicious. I love MRI… I should have gone for a career in medical physics rather than fusion.

Hospitals, hours are long for pretty much everyone even pre-covid.
Pay isn’t brilliant.

But I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else.

I was expecting the heart because of the starting point, I thought they went in around the armpit for the head work.

Perhaps I got the trainee. No-one told him.

Perhaps I got the trainee.

:)

Although, close to possible. There are medical students working, we’ve got contractors doing some of the hands on IT under our supervision. There’s no extra admin staff¹
The NHS is creaking.

¹ Would you honestly want more?

They don’t absolutely have to go in through the groin, but it’s a convenient entry point for most purposes.

I had a heart attack at 1230 (lunchtime) on Friday 9th December 2005. The consultant, Dr H, was a woman with a very high reputation among her colleagues. She went in through my groin without any trouble for either of us. She was surprised to find that my arteries were quite clear – apart from one little section about a millimetre in extent.

Eventually I was sent to Stoke for a stent to be fitted. The consultant there (one of Dr H’s colleagues (Dr A) had taken over while she went to Iraq with the Territorials). He saw me before the procedure and took my pulse. “That’s a good strong pulse”, he remarked, “I think I’ll go in through the radial artery.” “Well”, says I, “that was a waste of a disposable razor, wasn’t it?” Grins by both parties.

The following half hour or so was fascinating. Seeing your own heart beating on the monitor is amazing, even more so when the contrast die is injected. I lit up like a Christmas tree!

Apart from the fact that I’d need to have another heart attack, I wouldn’t mind seeing it again.

I had a heart attack at 1230 (lunchtime) on Friday 9th December 2005

A work colleague was walking in to work one morning, decided he really felt bad with chest pain; so he walked past the building, across the road, up the ramp and into A&E.

By lunchtime he had done a tour of the imaging dept. and cardiac theatres and was sitting in bed with 3 stents fitted.
By mid-afternoon he had a laptop to “play” with.
By lunch the following day seven members of our department had been given major earache by the ward sister for providing him access to work on the systems under his remit.

Seeing your own heart beating on the monitor is amazing, even more so when the contrast die is injected.

I think I will pass on that experience. I had the cataract done under GA, I’d have passed out when they started if it had been a local.
You would not believe how many needle-phobic clinical people I know – it’s fine if it’s going into someone else is the viewpoint.

Seeing your own heart beating on the monitor is amazing, even more so when the contrast die is injected.

I think I will pass on that experience. I had the cataract done under GA, I’d have passed out when they started if it had been a local.

Me too likewise. I’ve had two operations under general anaesthetic in recent years: an inguinal hernia repair, and a subcutaneous heart loop monitor insertion. At 14 I had a general to have a toenail bed removed after repeated ingrowing toenails. I had a vaso-vagal episode when they inserted a cannula in my arm before the monitor insertion, and they had to delay the op while I recovered – moved me from number 1 in the morning’s queue to number 5.

By lunchtime he had done a tour of the imaging dept. and cardiac theatres and was sitting in bed with 3 stents fitted.

That’s closer to what would have happened to me if I’d had the heart attack in the last couple of years. As this was 2005, my timeline was:

• Heart attack on Friday
• Released to go home on Tuesday
• Back on the following Saturday (Dr H was clearing her lists before taking her Middle East holiday)
• Sent home to wait for appointment to be stented
• To Stoke on Maundy Thursday (13 Apr 06); got gowned up with canula inserted and was resting on trolley
• Nurse apologises – imaging equipment in one of the two labs had broken down and couldn’t be fixed that day
• Sent home because remaining lab was now used only for in-patients – something to do with avoiding bed-blocking over Easter
• Returned a few weeks later for full procedure

The only reason they couldn’t have done all this at Telford is because they didn’t have the facilities to do open-heart surgery if something had gone wrong.

Now, all heart-attacks and strokes go straight to Stoke, I believe.

imaging equipment in one of the two labs had broken down and couldn’t be fixed that day

Was 3 Cath labs, now 4 but with 1 out of use undergoing update. That state continues until all 4 are at the new standard.

Sent home because remaining lab was now used only for in-patients – something to do with avoiding bed-blocking over Easter

Common at bank holidays – there’s an explanation I’ve heard, and it doesn’t paint granny/grandads relatives in a good light.

Now, all heart-attacks and strokes go straight to Stoke,

Stoke? Wolverhampton is far closer physically and about half the travel time.

Stoke? Wolverhampton is far closer physically and about half the travel time.

I’m tempted to make a comment about the bleedin’ obvious but I won’t.

Though only about 12 miles from the centre of Wolverhampton, it’s a bit further to Newcross Hospital where the parking is atrocious. For this reason alone I’m glad that my local NHS trust chose Stoke.

Currently (just looked it up), there are arrangements with Stoke, Wolverhampton and Birmingham for cardiac procedures which might result in the need for open-heart surgery.

I can’t ever have an MRI scan, only CT scans with care, due to my two pacemakers etc in me. I managed to pull one of the pacemaker wires out of my heart a few days before I was due for a new pacemaker (I am offically pacemaker dependant), as a result when I was being worked on it caused chaos – 30 mins operation became 4 and half hours – I wiped the rest of the day surgery operations out, they ended up putting an external pacemaker into me via the groin. Wakefield hospital was not setup for possible open heart surgery and ended up being transferred to the LGI (Leeds Genral Infirmary) under blue lights.

They then decided I only had a 15% chance of survival if they had to do open heart surgery on me and opted for the second pacemaker in other shoulder, but while waiting for that operation, got an infection (MRSA). After that was treated got my second pacemaker a week later.

Though only about 12 miles from the centre of Wolverhampton, it’s a bit further to Newcross Hospital where the parking is atrocious.

I would say that urgent cases come in by ambulance and the parking for them is…
ah, yes that too is often “over subscribed”

Currently (just looked it up), there are arrangements with Stoke, Wolverhampton and Birmingham for cardiac procedures which might result in the need for open-heart surgery.

At one time (last century) there were just two centres for heart surgery in the midlands. Walsgrave (Coventry) and QE (Birmingham), there was an 80/20 split of funds and workload. We move on, and it’s all so much more routine.

¹ That was QE 80% funds and 20% workload, Walsgrave 80% workload and 20% funds. QE was a teaching hospital, Walsgrave was not. We move on Walsgrave is now UHCW and a teaching hospital.

MRI isn’t a big deal. It’s a noisy thing – weird clicks and hums and buzzes – but that’s just how it is.

Why don’t they provide noise-cancelling headphones where they currently provide pathetic and pointless ones? I know they’re not cheap, but compared to the scanner itself…

Why don’t they provide noise-cancelling headphones where they currently provide pathetic and pointless ones? I know they’re not cheap, but compared to the scanner itself…

Noise-cancelling headphones?
Think what is involved in those, compare that to a pacemaker, phone, and other electronic kit that they don’t want in there.

Things that work with electromagnetic fields, exposed to an electromagnetic field that’s akin to comparing a tangerine to a jumbo jet.

Wouldn’t end well.