RISC OS & water

Hi,

In The Netherlands we nearly everyday see the troubles of floodings in the UK. We had our share in the past, but not that bad.

I hope you all stay well and I wish you all the best.

Peter
Maastricht

In The Netherlands we nearly everyday see the troubles of floodings in the UK. We had our share in the past, but not that bad.

Hmmm, some people choose to live down in areas that flood, others pick a slightly more expensive property.

Approximately:
Latitude:N 52° 23’ 28.9727"
Longitude:W 1° 24’ 39.649"
90 metre elevation

Meanwhile the wind has wrecked half of the fence…

We got off lucky.
Our main problem is the asshole farmer the destroysfarms the fields to the east (aka “upstream”) has installed a billion land drains and doesn’t give a <beep> where the water actually goes. [ http://www.heyrick.co.uk/blog/index.php?diary=20131224 ]

Sadly, we can’t say that for those living about fifty kilometres or so to the west, it’s a mess in Redon and Guipry, many parts underwater.
A huge chunk of wall and part of the building of the castle at Pontivy has collapsed. [ http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ble6v ]

Some of the news articles are saying that this is “not unusual”, and I’m listing off the storms in my head – Petra, Qumaira, Ruth, Stéphanie, Tini, Uuuuuullllaaaaaaa!!!!¹, and coming in a few days is Violetta. I’m looking at the text of the shipping forecast and thinking “uh-hu, this is indeed normal”. Ask America, who is freezing on one side and baking on the other. Or how about the wonderful downhill skiing in Sotchi where the athletes do their stuff and then go sunbathe. Yeah. This is normal. Riiight. Pull the other one, it has bells attached.

Sadly, as Steve points out, some people don’t quite appreciate why some areas were set aside as flood plains. It is insane that anybody got permission to build there in the first place – but they did. I said back in 2009 in my epic review of the 200x decade [ http://www.heyrick.co.uk/blog/index.php?diary=20091231 ] that we need to dredge rivers and stop building on damn flood plains. C’mon people, I don’t want to sound heartless but there is a reason Westonzoyland is so named, and the place next to it is called Andersea. It’s a pleasant cycle ride, lovely and flat, but the history is full of flood stories.

Still, no matter what the experts say², it surely is not normal to have as many storms as days of the week all roll in on top of each other, nor huge swathes of the western parts of our two countries underwater.

¹ Hint: Jeff Wayne.

² They’re saying that the shift in the air patterns and this current behaviour is what kicked off the Little Ice Age [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age ], and that a return to this may be imminent. Are these the same “experts” who were saying just months ago that the Earth is warming up, the Arctic ice is melting and…..? I’m no climatologist, but both can’t be true.

They’re saying that the shift in the air patterns and this current behaviour is what kicked off the Little Ice Age [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age ], and that a return to this may be imminent. Are these the same “experts” who were saying just months ago that the Earth is warming up, the Arctic ice is melting and…..? I’m no climatologist, but both can’t be true.

Actually, the modelling shows extremes as opposed just constant warm.

Does this stuff count as extreme or is it just getting ready for the interesting stuff?

Does this stuff count as extreme or is it just getting ready for the interesting stuff?

I fear the latter. [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve ]

Hmmm, some people choose to live down in areas that flood, others pick a slightly more expensive property.

I don’t know the situation in the UK, but in The Netherlands politicians would be very glad with a point of view like this. I distracts from the real responsibilities. When someone wants to live somewhere, he needs permission from the authorities. And if given, they are responsible for his safety. If they don’t want to be responsible, or cannot fulfill the obligations, they should not have given permission in the first place.

The climate change is obviously about more than global warming. Weather becomes less stable and less predictable. And yes, both can be true. The matter is how countries deal with that. If the waves rule Britannia and ‘Keep calm and carry on’ becomes ‘Keep cold and carry sandbags’ politicians have not foreseen these extremities. And that says something about politicians. Well, it’s a discussion for later.

This is what The Netherlands would look like without defences.
http://www.kennislink.nl/system/files/000/015/771/medium/nederland_zonder_dijken.jpg?1246876076
I whish you a brighter future.

I don’t know the situation in the UK, but in The Netherlands politicians would be very glad with a point of view like this. I distracts from the real responsibilities. When someone wants to live somewhere, he needs permission from the authorities.

To build on a flood plain, or anywhere requires permission from the authorities, but…

And if given, they are responsible for his safety.

If given the authorities disclaim all responsibility for the consequences. Only after prolonged campaigning can people get the authorities to spend on flood prevention.
Indeed the Somerset situation is one where lack of spending on maintaining the historic flood relief/prevention systems has made things worse. The political types are to blame for allowing the building and to blame for reducing spending on the maintenance.
Buying properties newly built in flood plains encourages the greedy builders and politicians to do more of the same.

<ranty-ranty> ☺

When someone wants to live somewhere, he needs permission from the authorities. And if given, they are responsible for his safety. If they don’t want to be responsible, or cannot fulfill the obligations, they should not have given permission in the first place.

Mom was listening to Radio Four and she told me that they identify one of the problems as being that in the UK, there are no “Mayors”. Sure, we have “The Mayor Of London” and stuff, but compare that with over here (and in various other European countries). If we have a problem, we go to our mayor. A man named Gérard. Who looks after a commune consisting of approximately 300 people and maybe 3,000 pigs, and a few dozen cows. Every named dot that you can see on a map of France has a mayor.

The mayor of Redon may find himself out of a job if the river maintenance was not performed correctly. Possibly even liable. Sadly, Guipry is notorious for flooding. This year is one of the worst, but it is by no means unusual. And as for the chateau in Pontivy, the Rohan family (perhaps the most powerful in France, they own great chunks of it!) have stated that the town of Pontivy signed a lease many years ago to have the castle for tourism and such, and that they were responsible for the upkeep. The castle has stood for hundreds of years, and quite likely in worse conditions than this. The failure of the castle wall is being put on a systematic failure of the town to do maintenance on the building. You can probably see where this is going, but right now it is landing directly on the mayor’s lap.

Now let’s ask the Brits a question. Who do you go to? There are no mayors. There are town councils who, as Steve points out, are better at disclaiming things as their problem than making things their problem. There are district councils to look after roads, streetlights, and such. But who do you go to if the river was not dredged? That numpty in charge of the Environment Agency? You think he cares? Who is between you and him? There are departments, there are processes, there are little windows to talk to people through at the swanky built-with-your-tax-money district council offices, but there is no one single person “in charge”. So it is easy for the whole thing to dissolve into a mass of finger pointing.

You could, I guess, take up an issue with your MP – but mayors by definition are apolitical. Sure, our mayor has a right to vote and he may vote left, right, or even national front, but he is not a politician any more than a policeman is a politician. His job is to look after his turf. So, to the MP. Do they really care? They are out in force and in wellies to walk around the flooded towns for the best photo ops because they must be seen to do something or else they won’t get elected again. However, if the MP was actually concerned, now is far too late. Residents of the affected areas in the UK (especially Somerset) have been complaining about the lack of maintenance of the waterways for a long time. I lived in Bridgwater in the early-mid ‘90s and even back then it was something the farmers talked about.
The MPs didn’t care back then, and for all the words and fake concern, they don’t care now either. The only thing that will get the waterways taken care of it not, as Steve says, a prolonged campaign, but more likely some bean counter will realise that doing it first will cost less than tidying up the mess. Yes, you have to be that cynical to be a Brit. :-/

they are responsible for his safety.

We need that. Everywhere. Like, make it an EU directive that the UKIP can moan about.

It distracts from the real responsibilities.

I’m trying to think what the “real” responsibilities of the government mob actually are.

• Law and order? Policing has been cut back and replaced with PCSOs which are a joke ‘cos they have practically zero powers – they’re Neighbourhood Watch in a uniform.
• Road maintenance? If the TV news is anything to go by, many roads are in terrible shape.
• Education? Hmmm… Kinda don’t think this is going the way they want it to. Or maybe it is if they are aiming to have a really dumb population that won’t challenge their authority.
• Pensions? Given that pensioners are pretty much the political punching bag, I will refrain from saying more. It would be extremely impolite. [ http://www.heyrick.co.uk/blog/index.php?diary=20140102 ]
• Social support? I’ll leave this to the Daily Mail. Suffice to say, the EU directives don’t just allow any random foreigner to walk in and claim benefits (I was entitled to sod-all here until I could prove¹ five years of presence). Of course, the government would know this if they bothered to actually READ the directives instead of blaming them for all of their failings. And, explain to me, why does one of the most closed European borders seem utterly incapable of recording who comes in and who goes out? That Abu-cleric guy was a huge embarrassment to the country, but I can’t help wondering how he got in in the first place, and if he got in illegally, why he wasn’t thrown in prison² for having done so if deportation was a touchy area. [though, looking at his Wiki page, you wonder if every organisation was out to undermine every other – what a mess!]
• Maintain the financial status quo? You mean like the chancellor who flogged off the reserves when they were practically at their lowest price ever? The chancellor (same one, I think) that dipped into the pension pot to make up for other shortcomings? The fact that the banks can balls-up everything “but don’t worry, we’ll get Joe Public to fix this”³? Yeah, that sounds like a parade of competence.
• Keeping good liaisons with trading partners? Oh, this’ll be the same government that might actually be dumb enough to hold a referendum on Europe “in or out”.

So – asides from getting paid for barely bothering to turn up for “work” and giving themselves big pay rises (they think they deserve it) when public sector pay has been frozen for ages – what exactly is the function of anybody at all in Westminster?

¹ Proven by five years of having made tax declarations. Britain might want to try that…

² I mean a real prison where you break rocks and stuff. And get to eat those rocks for dinner. Yay!

³ I said back when the US bailed itself out [ http://www.heyrick.co.uk/blog/index.php?diary=20081003 ] that bank bailouts should come with the condition that all of the executives, directors, and Members of the Board should all be fired. No payouts, no entitlements, no parachute. Just put their things in a box, leave, and walk to the jobcentre. If the bank fails to the point that the government needs to rescue it, everybody running it has fundamentally failed. And need to be replaced.

⁴ Probably just as well I’m not in charge of a country… It would be a nice place, but woe be upon those who break laws…

Now let’s ask the Brits a question. Who do you go to? There are no mayors. There are town councils who, as Steve points out, are better at disclaiming things as their problem than making things their problem. There are district councils to look after roads, streetlights, and such. But who do you go to if the river was not dredged?

Ah, you mean a Gérard. The one we have here is called Waterschappen. And you have an equivalent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Drainage_Boards
Are they really that concealed? They exist from 1252, In The Netherlands as well.

We owe them a lot. Everyone knows the Delta Works as a coastal defence. Our second enemy comes from the rivers Rhine and Meuse. And from smaller rivers ending in them. Heavy rains and melting snow caused a lot of trouble here. The Waterschappen built dikes, deepend rivers and canals, installed pumps and did a lot more. Lots of locals are involved (they know the area), they don’t depend on the moods of politicians and the have their own sources of money. They spent a billion euros last year. But as you stated:

doing it first will cost less than tidying up the mess.

And you have an equivalent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Drainage_Boards

“Much of their work involves the maintenance of rivers, drainage channels (rhynes), ordinary watercourses, pumping stations and other critical infrastructure,”

Which is what the locals in Somerset were complaining hadn’t been done.

BTW. Rick’s comments are about France, where he lives. You see we also export our cynics just in case the rest of the world has a shortage.

Rick’s comments are about France, where he lives.

…Redon, Guipry, Pontivy, and farmer-abuse are comments about France.
A lot of the rest is about the UK, especially the Somerset area.

You see we also export our cynics

The cynics view could also be “we got out….while we still could!”. :-)

Sorry for the delay, I had to put my finger in a dike.

I know that some of Rick’s comments are about Britanny (Morbihan, been there) and some from the UK. And that Steve lives north-east from Bury (been there) and south of Norwich.

<ranty-ranty> ☺

There are some details I don’t onderstand. What does this mean?

And that Steve lives north-east from Bury (been there) and south of Norwich.

Born in Sheffield, Yorkshire. Living in Warwickshire (the latitude and longitude earlier were from a map site)

ranty-ranty ☺
There are some details I don’t onderstand. What does this mean?

an extended and sometimes incoherent complaint.

an extended and sometimes incoherent complaint.

Well, given who wrote all that, I’d say both.