RISC OS on Pi2 review on Youtube

Hi,

I’ve just seen this review of RISC OS on the Pi2 on youtube and its not very good :-(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZiwP2l5Y4c

Lee

and its not very good

I agree: it’s not a very good… review.

First step: search for package manager. Not a lot of apps here = no apps for RISC OS.
Install and run Firefox: it’s slow = RISC OS is slow.
Check Firefox version: it’s old = RISC OS is only for old people.
Firefox crashes = RISC OS is not stable.

Let’s try Visual Studio 2013 under Linux, and we’ll see if Ubuntu is good.
The whole ‘review’ was shorter than the boot time of Ubuntu under a Pi :)

Nota: review of Ubuntu is even better. Unfair and false in every statement. Raspbian users will love it :)

Although it’s not good from a RiscOS point of view, his point is perfectly valid. A basic requirement of any desktop these days is internet browsing and watching video’s and we simply don’t have a decent browser.

Anyone younger than 40 trying to use RiscOS as a modern OS is going to struggle. Us 87’ers are well aware of it’s limitations and where it exceeds – particularity in programming and bare-metal access.

There’s a perfectly good GPU in the Pi which is now documented, so HAL/API extensions could be added so a browser could support HTML5 video playback etc. Sounds like a massive piece of work though considering you’ve also got to get a modern browser to compile and work on RiscOS.

A basic requirement of any desktop these days is internet browsing and watching video’s and we simply don’t have a decent browser.

Basic requirement for a connected personal desktop OS. IoT, embedded, POS, servers, workstations, and all other uses based on apps and not web, don’t really need a web browser or a video player. Some massively used OS don’t rely on web browsing (Android, iOS, etc.).

I develop apps and write texts. How often do I need a more modern web browser and a multimedia player in the day for my work? 0. At home it’s a bit different of course :) But I’m agree: a good web browser is always useful. So a a good VNC client, or a way to virtualize Linux at correct speed under RISC OS (basically, since a Pi is 35 $, it’s the same).

Some massively used OS don’t rely on web browsing (Android, iOS, etc.).

I think there are many who would disagree.
Hint – I’m writing this on my phone. And the abilities of Safari on the iPad mean that I need to turn on my PC less.
Both devices without a modern browser? Unthinkable!

Depends what your target market is, if it’s developers then we can live without web browsing. If it’s the iPhone generation, they were born into the Internet so it’s a basic necessity.

Personally, I don’t see RISCOS’s market growing beyond “old timers” or developers such as myself that are relatively new to it (or coming back), until it can provide the basic functionality you get with the mainstream OS’s.

Having said that, I prefer it as a small community. Its certainly a lot more polite here than most Windows/Mac forums.

Both devices without a modern browser? Unthinkable!

For you. But most people today only use three apps on their phone (Facebook, YouTube, Gmail) and don’t go on Internet with a web browser a single time in a day. Android is not a Webless OS, but an OS with more apps than web. A Windows PC is almost the opposite today: not so much applications (Office, Media Player) and a lot of web browsing. IMHO, it’s a bit different for tablets.

If it’s the iPhone generation, they were born into the Internet so it’s a basic necessity.

You confuse Web browser and connected applications. It’s a basic necessity to be connected… The tool to connect is another problem. On less than 3 inch screen, there are not a lot of Firefox users :)

I don’t see RISCOS’s market growing beyond “old timers” or developers such as myself that are relatively new to it (or coming back)

Appliances, professional applications, POS, IoT, embedded, gaming, vertical applications. All of this don’t need a web browser. And it’s an huge market. RISC OS can be a good platform for appliances (as it was yesterday for digital signage). The problem for me today is not the web browser, but SSL. Companies want to have a SSL server and SSL client for their vertical applications.

I can make server code fast, and compile it with ABC. HTTPServ is pretty solid (WebJames almost). As a client, I can use RDP and I have a correct web browser (for vertical applications). Only problem is lack of good VNC client, and lack of examples about what can be made with JS under NetSurf. Nothing more for my company daily projects.

All these problems are not so difficult to solve, apart from server SSL. Debuging of Avalanche & webmaster documentation for Netsurf.

“Anyone younger than 40 trying to use RiscOS as a modern OS is going to struggle”

My kids prefer RISC OS to anything else, which I found surprising.
But for web browsing and email, they use a tablet.
At least the desktop applications are extremely responsive and don’t crash.
Also they prefer the “retro games”, with the possible exceptions of minecraft and Little Big Planet.
The mainstream OS use for web browsing and watching videos is pretty dead.

You confuse Web browser and connected applications

I’m going by how my children use their phones, they do a heck of a lot of browsing on their phones as it’s convenient. iPhone web browsing is not really any different to doing it in Safari on a PC – to them at least. I personally find it frustrating and tend to switch to the tablet myself, but they seem oblivious to the screen size.

The younger generation tend to be more web aware than the older generation, who tend to use apps as you rightly point it. I believe it’s the younger generation we need to attract if we want good programmers, I myself and all my close school friends started programming assembler at 11 – I couldn’t imagine that happening today.

Also they prefer the “retro games”, with the possible exceptions of minecraft and Little Big Planet.

Same here, they love it when I get a new game running on the Pi as they get to play test them for the first time.

Perhaps we need Java for RISCOS so they can play Minecraft! On second thoughts….please no.

The trouble with Java is that it’s not even compatible with itself, never mind other its original aim of other platforms. Here at work, I can’t update Java to a current version because at least one of the applications we use would cease to work.

Although it’s not good from a RiscOS point of view, his point is perfectly valid.

I felt exactly the same when I saw Linux command line. All the commands I was used to (like ‘dir’ or ‘cat’ to list a directory) didn’t work. Horrible. But I didn’t post a u-tube video to expose my ignorance of Linux.

So perhaps we need a volunteer to upload an alternative RO + Pi2 review to YouTube.

The younger generation tend to be more web aware than the older generation, who tend to use apps as you rightly point it. I believe it’s the younger generation we need to attract if we want good programmers, I myself and all my close school friends started programming assembler at 11 – I couldn’t imagine that happening today.

Good point. But do we really need to target people who just want to surf on Internet? There is also a lot of people who want to use a computer and its apps. Of course, if there is a way to have a good internet access under RISC OS, it’s good too. IMHO, the best solution is virtualization, with a small Linux+Firefox container. It will solve too another problem: security. Containers are a good way to get all the applications we don’t have today. Via emulation, hardware virtualization, or Linux in AMP mode (on cores 2, 3, 4).

Perhaps we need Java for RISCOS so they can play Minecraft! On second thoughts….please no.

The same here. Linux + X + Java + Minecraft = 1 container.
Good point with virtualization is that it’s a one shot work. Once done, it’ll open many doors (Linux + X + OpenOffice).

I use the same approach with emulation. DosBox gives access to DOS, Win16, CPM, GEOS, GEM work. And perhaps later to Win95/Win98 software and network/midi, etc.

IF riscos doesn’t have youtube it’s to avoid to waste time watching video like this :p

IF riscos doesn’t have youtube it’s to avoid to waste time watching video like this :p

There are sometimes reasons to look. Usually it’s to keep an eye on things because it’s a bad idea to leave idiots unsupervised.

IF riscos doesn’t have youtube it’s to avoid to waste time watching video like this :p

We have YouTube. But it take several minutes to be able to watch a video :)

http://www.users.on.net/~belles/software/murnong/

For you. But most people today only use three apps on their phone (Facebook, YouTube, Gmail) and don’t go on Internet with a web browser a single time in a day.

Watching people at work, they do use apps for the common things (Twitter, Facebook, YouTube) but for other stuff they use a web browser. The two complement each other, and the more advanced users tend to prefer websites as it can do things the app cannot do, or does them in a better way.

You confuse Web browser and connected applications.

Not really. Often the browser allows you to resize, to zoom in, while the app does not.

On less than 3 inch screen, there are not a lot of Firefox users :)

Depends on the screen and the person’s eyes. My screen is about five inches across and it is full HD (1280×720). Yeah, the text can be a bit small at times but at least there is enough resolution to mean it can be zoomed in properly. Of course, what brings it home is to turn on my Pi with its monitor being 1280×1024 but in 17 inches instead of five! If the underlying OS is thinking in those sorts of terms, it is no wonder it can be hard to read at times. ;-)

Oh, and don’t kid yourself. If it is a choice between that and nothing, it will be used. Some people like huge phones (with bigger displays). Some people prefer smaller more discreet phones and accept a smaller display. But one thing is common with most decent phones these days. They have a higher resolution than typical desktop monitors of the CRT era, and they’re a fraction of the size. Maybe our eyes will evolve faster than our thumbs?

Good point. But do we really need to target people who just want to surf on Internet?

No.
But then, we wouldn’t be anyway.
People that just want to do stuff online will probably have little interest (if any) in RISC OS and would likely be happy with a tablet. Indeed, their choice of tablet may be dictated more by status (Apple, Samsung) or budget (HTC) rather than what OS it uses or what sort of apps can run on it. The important content is pretty OS agnostic, indeed one might suggest that Google’s YouTube app on iOS is actually better than the Android one.
The world of iOS and Android. It’s not a place we want to be. Move on, nothing to see here…

So perhaps we need a volunteer to upload an alternative RO + Pi2 review to YouTube.

Done.

Usually it’s to keep an eye on things because it’s a bad idea to leave idiots unsupervised.

;-) Am I the only person that noticed he had two copies of StrongEd running? Uh… Okay…

…

God¹, what a HUGE pain in the ass.

So I made a video response. Uploaded it. Went to post a message for Pieter to see, as YouTube no longer does video responses. YouTube kindly created me a Google+ profile. Well, I didn’t want that. I don’t need random Google+ profiles just for making a comment or two. So I had to wait ~20 minutes until I could unlink YT from G+ (funny, it can create it instantly, but isn’t so quick at undoing it). Then I had to add “?hl=en” to the end of everything in G+ because it detected that I was in France and insisted on speaking to me in French – this is despite most of the rest of Google thinking my location is either France or Japan (more relevant auto-suggestions) and speaking to me in English ! British English at that. But no, not Google+.
Eventually I found the link to delete the unwanted G+ page, which caused the server to throw a 500 error. Nice going, Google, you really don’t want people to leave G+ huh? I looked at the pages overview thingy and it appears to have gone, and doesn’t appear to have caused any collateral damage.

So I’m disabling comments on my video. Not going through THAT crap again. Instead, I’ll direct people here. ;-)

And if Pieter never sees it… well… tant pis as the French would say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFFAwtkLbCM

¹ Other sky fairies and mythological beings are available.

So perhaps we need a volunteer to upload an alternative RO + Pi2 review to YouTube.

I volunteer. I’ll plan something to go up in the next few weeks.

I’ll plan something to go up in the next few weeks.

Weeks? ;-)

I wrote a rough script on my iPad (which is why it sounds like I know what I’m talking about), filmed some video on my mobile phone, with another phone recorded the spoken dialogue timed (roughly) to the video content (what you have is the third recording, I did two dry runs to get an idea of the timing). Transfered it all to the PC. Fixed the quiet sound with Nero Wave Editor. Pasted the new sound in place of the old ‘nothing’ audio of the video using AVIDemux (copy video, copy audio, save as MP4 (PSP) – muxing took about two minutes). All of that took maybe 40 minutes. It took longer than that to throw it at YouTube (HD video, 325MiB for 3m45s). Youtube’s HD offering, on the other hand, is a mere 60MiB. They can probably process it with options not available to a phone recording realtime…

I had nothing else that needed doing this evening, so I just sort of “put something together”.

I couldn’t be bothered to do timed subtitles, that takes a while to do it correctly. I’ll leave Google’s automatic subtitler to make a comical mess of my speech.

Well done, that’s not bad at all! Good on you! clickty
And less is always less, more sucks ;-)

Am I the only person that noticed he had two copies of StrongEd running?

You are not :)

Now I just need to get home from work so that I can watch your video… although I’m sure that it’ll be significantly better than that ignorant drivel that spawned this thread in the first place!

Then I had to add “?hl=en” to the end of everything in G+ because it detected that I was in France and insisted on speaking to me in French – this is despite most of the rest of Google thinking my location is either France or Japan (more relevant auto-suggestions) and speaking to me in English!

I live in NZ, have my OS set to (British) English, and toggle between Romaji and Kana keyboards. Most sites detect me as being in NZ. Sometimes they think I’m in the UK. One American site gives prices in USD but prefixes a pound sign on them. And last week, a site thought that I was in Japan. Why on earth would they detect the keyboard layout, of all things?

Weeks? ;-)

Whoops I didn’t see your post before mine. Yeah weeks becuase I know what my motivation can be like :P that and I must finish off some assignment work that’s due next week.

The guy in the video just seems to poke at an old version of Firefox (possibly a familiar piece of software in a strange new world for him) and then stop recording, muttering something about how he doesn’t know what RISC OS is and blames it on RISC OS… Meh..

I recently watched This video on youtube which I thought was quite a nice, balanced review.

muttering something about how he doesn’t know what RISC OS is and blames it on RISC OS… Meh..

:-)

I recently watched

…I only watched the video as it was mentioned here as being a bit… dumb. Like this guy finds a browser he recognises, and somehow manages to fail to notice that it is six years old (http://www.riscos.info/index.php/Mozilla_Firefox) and anyway everything sucks because it can’t do YouTube…

Really, YouTube for me is an easy source of JPOP videos (like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTm666EKYRs) that are not as badly messed with as the ones on Youku (YouKu seems to contain about a million copies of Sunshine Girl http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjU1MDc3Njg0.html – expect eye-rotting resolution and 15fps frame rate (and it’s all in Chinese)).

From time to time I also watch other stuff on YouTube, like "let’s build a tesla coil, generate a billion volts, and make a big spark inside a butane cannister just to see what it does. uh… yeah… there’s that hair-tingling moment when you know what’s going to happen, you’re just waiting for it.

I don’t tend to watch reviews on YouTube, as there’s a lot of dumb people saying a lot of dumb stuff, culminating in what must be the most pointless thing ever – the “unboxing” video. I mean, WTF? What does it say about society that some guy opening up a box containing shiny-shiny and then taking said shiny-shiny out of said box (complete with OTT "ooh"s and "aah"s) gets tens of thousands of views? When I got my iPad, I wrote about the UI and general “first experience with iOS” on my blog. I absolutely did not make an unboxing video. Because, well, because it seemed so very….crass…