I/O

My wife had this
forwarded to her this afternoon.

The speaker seems to know more than all the politicians put together.

John

That was very informative, thank you, John.

I stumbled upon two interesting articles about the economic part of a possible Brexit based on current statistics: here and here

And here is my own take (in German), from the perspective of someone mainly reading German press (i.e. extremely bad informed).

Hmm… If it wasn’t for a lot of frantic pedalling and bail-outs, the American economy may well have collapsed in 2008. I don’t think size or stature is any reliable indication. It is down to the confidence of other people.

That was very informative, thank you, John.

You’re welcome, Peter.

I stumbled upon two interesting articles…

Thanks for these, Steffen. I have to confess that the economic arguments aren’t paramount for me. Their importance is linked to (but eclipsed by) the threat of TTIP – the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Protocol and the Investor-State Disputes Settlement system which is embedded in the current proposals.

If you don’t know about TTIP and ISDS, space here is too limited to explain but I believe there is technology available which will allow you to find out more than you ever wanted to know about them and much else besides.

I am of an age where I am using the facilities of the NHS more and more. If the Americans were to get their way over TTIP, the future of the NHS would be dire. Currently, the big players in the EU are dead against TTIP as currently proposed by the Americans and an opt-out for the NHS has been negotiated (I believe).

Were we to leave the EU, a new UK Government would soon be in power. I’m assuming Johnson, Gove, Duncan-Smith and friends would have their hands on the levers of power. They might jump straight into bed with the Americans and sign up to TTIP in order to disprove the predictions of those who currently say it would be impossible to negotiate trade treaties in the short term. The NHS would then be at the mercy of American multinational companies.

I think you might be able to tell which side of the argument I support.

In the *remain*ing hours of the day before:

Thank you all for the information and the kind replies. All the best!

Bremain or Brexit, don’t axe-it.

They might jump straight into bed with the Americans

America is a very foreign place. I’ve been there many times. France, Italy, Germany etc. are much less foreign, i.e. much more similar to us in the UK.

I’ve heard a lot of conjecture and ‘facts’ produced in favour of one side or another. Yet in all the arguments I’ve heard as to why we should remain in the EU, I’ve yet to hear one that couldn’t be countered by an argument to leave that wasn’t at least as valid and as strong, and often more so.

Before making your mind up about the EU, watch this presentation with an open mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq72f81kkM4

..wow, what a result…from the vote-map I can cleary see a new Scotland referendum coming up soon…can I already say Good Bye England & Wales, Welcome back Scotland !? …what a mess…

…what a mess…

Understatement of the year there. Hello England (formerly United Kingdom), a little unimportant third world country…

That Farrage bloke is going to be even more unbearable now, but with luck he’s fulfilled his purpose and will fade away…

The nightmare has begun. Our old freedoms are nearing their end.

The word “chaos” keeps popping into my mind.

What a difference between high standard democracy and … politics.

I have always been embarrassed by coarse, philistine, xenophobic, paranoid, un-latined little-englanders. A car with a flag of St George fluttering out of the window usually means a tattooed exhibitionist at the wheel, who has failed his Britishness test. And he in turn no doubt despises books, intellectuals, learning, history and most of the things I love about my country. Before the referendum we could avoid each other. Post me diluvium.

One who can think with his brains, doesn’t need his guts for that. The opposite is true as well.

A car with a flag of St George fluttering out of the window usually means a tattooed exhibitionist at the wheel, who has failed his Britishness test.

We get that over here at football time.

Actually just yesterday some fat oiks in a beat up Fiesta sped past us. The bloke in the back leaning out the window with a beer in one hand and rude gestures with the other, shouting something that the alcohol had made illegible.

You have no idea how much it pisses me off that he (probably only here for a short time) could vote while we (who now have no idea what is going to happen in the future) could not.

Still, it is going to give me the push to apply for French citizenship. A new country and culture and language and La Manche aren’t enough to distance myself from the 17 million racist deluded xenophobes (it must suck to be one of the 16 million that have to live amongst them, nor to mention all the younger people that couldn’t vote either). The whole thing has been depressing and embarrassing and horrible.

A new country and culture and language and La Manche aren’t enough to distance myself from the 17 million racist deluded xenophobes (it must suck to be one of the 16 million that have to live amongst them

I have long believed that there were a sizeable number of idiots and xenophobes, from the result this morning I now have a reasonably full¹ count of them.

¹ Since it wasn’t a 100% turnout I’m left wondering about the 25% that didn’t vote.

PS. Interest exit poll stat: approximately 4% of UKIP voters voted remain. Care in the Community has a lot to answer for.

Nicely put, Rick.

I found my wife in tears in the kitchen this morning after she heard the news. We’ve been married almost 43 years now.

She’s French. While we have been in the EEC/EU, things were easy and free of problems. Now she wants to take British nationality. That will cost us a lot of money, and there is the test of Britishness that I don’t think I could pass despite having lived here all my life.

Our son messaged us this morning to say he will now make sure he has his French passport.

David Cameron, Boris Johnson and Nigel Farrage will go down in history as the people who presided over the break-up of the UK and did enormous damage to Europe. (Boris and Nigel probably just dismiss Europe as collateral damage and not their problem.)

One of the things that has disappointed me from both sides of this is when people resort to name calling. You make yourself look no better than the people you are attacking. If you truly believe there are ‘17 million racist deluded xenophobes’ then I would suggest you are also deluded.

I’m sorry, but I am fed up with this. Rather than look to address and understand the concerns that have divided millions of people and try to heal the wounds that this whole sorry thing has brought about I’m seeing a (small I believe) number of people post things that will only serve to further divide and incite hate.

I’m also getting increasingly fed up hearing how it’s all David Cameron’s fault. What about Jeremy Corbyn refusing to share a common platform to argue for remaining? Obviously other political differences were more important than this subject in his mind.

By all means criticise people but please do it in a constructive and balanced way.

I agree about the football flags though…

Two big questions: Which country will succeed the UK as permanent member of the UN Security Council, Germany? And which will be the royal family of the independent kingdom of Scotland, the House of Wittelsbach (Jacobite lineage) or the House of Windsor?

And which will be the royal family of the independent kingdom of Scotland, the House of Wittelsbach (Jacobite lineage) or the House of Windsor?

Just try a simple google query with the words “Queen” and “Canada” or a list of other countries around the world in the same position.

Short answer – exactly the same royal family as right now. It might become an independent country but that isn’t the same thing as kingdom.

Richard: given that a referendum built upon lies of which I (and thousands of other ex pats) was denied the ability to vote in may have seriously jeopardised my life my work and my future (ditto for all the other ex pats), you’ll have to forgive me if I am angry.
This will not fix the NHS. This will not fix immigration.
There’s a lot more I could write, but to be honest I can’t be bothered. Believe what you want. If it’s too late for criticism, constructive or otherwise. I doubt there will be a second referendum and I doubt that the brexit voters nor the EU will want this to continue “to see what happens”. Somehow whoever replaces Cameron will need to perform 5-12 years of negotiations within 24 months. For what? To end up in a worse position than you are now? Yes, you may get to put Aussi style quotas on foreigners. At what cost?
FWIW: I’d lay a fair measure of blame on Cameron and Co for a half hearted lacklustre campaign that utterly failed to appeal to or answer the prime issues raised by the various out campaigns.

Rick: I can totally forgive you anger. I truly hope that your personal situation doesn’t develop the way you fear it will.

TBH I would be shocked if there were a second referendum. Whatever anyone feels about the outcome it nevertheless is the outcome for better or worse.

I agree that the campaign was not handled well. I don’t think anyone on either side can claim to have behaved in a exemplary way. The big debate I saw seemed to consist of:

Leave to Remain: You’re just trying to scare people – project fear
Remain to Leave: You’re a bunch of liars

Hardly helpful. Hence my particular objection to name calling.