This board is begging for RO5.

I don’t think it’s up to me to fix RISCOS’s browser(s) 8~) …

But in postings to RISCOS fora you might post links – or at least make available – stuff which is accessible to RISCOS browsers! ?

You know we don’t have (anywhere near full) JS – so what’s the point?

Preaching to the unconverted?

So why choose to use JS?

You can have a direct link to the frame: http://clive.semmens.org.uk/RISCOS/Desk2017.html (but that means you don’t get the navigation to the rest of my site)

Why not? Because you’re relying on a technology which should be an optional enhancing add-on, not a barrier to access?

So why choose to use JS?

Because most of the people who visit my site are using non-RISCOS machines, and JS enables me to do worthwhile things I couldn’t do without it. I don’t know how much of my site works on RISC OS at all – I know a lot of it doesn’t.

Why not? Because you’re relying on a technology which should be an optional enhancing add-on, not a barrier to access?

No, it’s because I’m relying on a technology that almost everyone has available, to provide a facility that I couldn’t provide without that technology.

Because most of the people who visit my site are using non-RISCOS machines, and JS enables me to do worthwhile things I couldn’t do without it.

What are these worthwhile things that we here are missing? I hope that they’re more than “mouseovers” and don’t f*ck-up links & such.

Why not have a non-JS alternative?

OK – you can’t be ar*ed.

You can use the link http://clive.semmens.org.uk/RISCOS/index.html if you like, and then follow the link to “My desk with a Pi” – does that work?

Why not have a non-JS alternative?

OK – you can’t be ar*ed.

No, I don’t know how. As far as I know, it’s not possible – short of repeating the navigation information thousands of times, on every single leaf frame on the entire site, which would make updating and maintenance an absolute nightmare.

(I have no idea what a “mouseover” is…)

I just switched to the Pi and fired up NetSurf to check, and yes, that last link works – but of course you don’t get the “default” right-hand frame that ought to appear to the right of the navigation bar, because that relies on Javascript to tell it what the default right-hand frame is. Hey ho. Not having Javascript really is a very serious defect…

But at least you can follow the “My Desk – with a Pi” link and keep the navigation.

Wow. Yes! M.2 is quite exciting and so is type-C.

And then there’s this one HiKey 960

OK – you can’t be ar*ed.

Give it a rest.

I don’t think it’s up to me to fix RISCOS’s browser(s) 8~)

No, but given it is obviously intended to be viewed on RISC OS (given the links, and all the mentions of RISC OS), it actually working is your responsibility.

My blog uses some weird markup and abuses tables. This is done by intention. I’m quite well aware that lots of cool things can be done with CSS and scripting. But if the site does NOT look “as expected” on NetSurf, then back to the drawing board. I can hardly claim to be RISC OS friendly on a site that isn’t.

Is the lack of Javascript a pain? Not really. On-blog scripting is scant – basically there’s an easter egg that does something if you enter the Konami code (not on RISC OS, of course). But beyond that, I have quite strong (and impolite) opinions for those who use Javascript to open links when simple a-href style links would do the exact same job.

As for your site, Clive… uh… The index.html?Desk2017 link? Clicked it with NetSurf 3.5 and it came straight up. With index on the left. The two RiscPCs link works, the with a Pi link works.

John – are you using an ancient version of NetSurf or something? It all works fine on my Pi…?

What are these worthwhile things that we here are missing?

Just one in this case: the ability to specify a particular leaf frame when providing a link to a site, rather than having to tell people “go to page XXX, then follow the link to YYY.” Having to tell them that wouldn’t be a big deal, but since most users have Javascript, I prefer the direct link to the right leaf frame – unfortunately that leaves the default leaf frame blank for those without Javascript, not just when I give them the link, but on every page that offers the opportunity to link direct to a particular leaf frame.

Rick – does Netsurf 3.5 have at least some bits of Javascript then? The exact bits my site needs?

OK – you can’t be ar*ed.

Semmens index → RISC OS → with a Pi. Worked fine.
Back to the index → Climate matters → Photographs. Works fine. The only problem I can see is the title banner appears twice. Oddity in NetSurf rendering or what? But it’s a minor thing, certainly not something to be quite that rude about.

Interestingly, my Netsurf is 3.7 – and my original link doesn’t work properly on it. The index appears, but the right-hand frame doesn’t, I have to click the link to make it appear.

The Javascript is in index.html, which calls RISCOSL.html for the left panel and whatever’s after the ? in the original URL, or a default if there’s no ? for the right panel.

Ah, I’ve found the JavaScript. There’s a little bit in the right hand panel when entering the site to get something to appear initially. Now me, I’d use PHP to put something there in the beginning because we can’t necessarily trust scripting – case in point it does not work off the bat on my Firefox (desktop or mobile) as the default policy is deny all scripting… :-)
More and more people are blocking scripts from “unknown” sites, so it might be prudent to look to see if there’s another way to do what you want?

But, yes, NetSurf 3.5 will run that scripting and make it work.

Clive – iconbar menu → Choices → Content.
Check if “Disable JavaScript” is ticked.

You might have done this as some sites confuse NetSurf and make it all crashy-crashy.

But, yes, NetSurf 3.5 will run that scripting and make it work.

Interestingly, NetSurf 3.7 doesn’t…

Check if “Disable JavaScript” is ticked.

Aha – will check! Thanks!

Fixed – more thanks! Now I know what to tell John or whoever next time… 8~)

But as to any non-Javascript way of achieving the same end – I’m all ears…

but on every page that offers the opportunity to link direct to a particular leaf frame.

Dunno if it would work correctly on frames – you and Tigger are the only frame sites I’ve come across this century ;-) however you could try outputting an HTTP redirection with PHP? Uh… if you’re using PHP, that is?

That’s how heyrick/blog sends you to the current “most recent”. Also means search engines and archivers have definite things to work with, instead of the same page changing all the time. My blog originally pasted the latest entry into index.php but it wasn’t spidered correctly, so now it’s a redirect so index.php is “nothing” and “everything” at the same time…

PHP?

I’d use PHP to put something there in the beginning because we can’t necessarily trust scripting

I’d use JS over PHP e v e r y time. PHP is a terrible technology, great for having your site hacked.

Oh, and I hadn’t disabled Javascript (not intentionally, anyway) – it must have been the default, I think.

Oh, and I hadn’t disabled Javascript (not intentionally, anyway) – it must have been the default, I think.

It is

you and Tigger are the only frame sites I’ve come across this century

I learnt HTML last century…and still do it by hand in a text editor (mostly Atom on the Mac). I have learnt a few bits more recently (like a teensy bit of Javascript, just to implement exactly what we’ve been talking about here) but only what I’ve needed to achieve particular ends as I’ve felt the need.