What all is needed for WiFi support?

Is there an idiot’s guide to setting this up available?

I’ll second this. I have, as mentioned, a Livebox. I also have a Belkin 54g wireless network access point. The AP will plug into the livebox to give me a second WAP running through ADSL; however I can’t seem to get this to work in reverse with the AP connecting to the Livebox via WiFi and outputting packets on the ethernet port to a connected machine. It looks like WiFi needs to work in “bridge” mode or “client” mode and the concept of having a client as a bridge doesn’t appear to exist…?

True but that’s not the point. It’s easy enough to break into a car, yet you can get fined by the police if you leave it unlocked because you’re “encouraging theft”.

Wow. Where do you live!? “Encouraging theft”? That’s like raising a family carrying a fine for encouraging paedos… it just doesn’t make sense.

The problem with unsecure networks however is there are law firms out there making a living from sending out cease and desist warnings.

Until recently the UK had a company that sent out lots of letters alleging material had been unlawfully downloaded, and you had to cough up a (fairly large) fine. It was something of a scam.

A bit like the French HADOPI which is sort of like the above being done by a government agency. Part of the three-strikes rule. Unfortunately they also seem to think IP address alone is sufficient evidence of a crime, and (as seems to be depressingly regular) the legislation is so badly written that there is no requirement to list what you are alleged to have “stolen” nor who (as is which legitimate copyright holder) is making the complaint against you. Thus, effectively it is extortion as without that information you have no way of knowing whether it is true or not. It is known that HADOPI pretty much concentrates on torrent traffic, so I would imagine all that needs to be done is to match an IP address to one of the better known trackers and just hope the obviously-guilty party fesses up.
Of course, there might be a different reason why this agency has sunk an obscene amount of taxpayer money and has yet to actually get as far as disconnection. [plus: you are obliged to continue paying for the disconnected service; the service is disconnected; and you can still be taken to task by the copyright holders – potentially punished three times for the same crime, that in itself may not be lawful or in keeping with the french constitution. plus: if angsty teen rips off three movies a night, everybody will suffer from the disconnection, and in certain cases (school activities; government agencies; phone bills!) it is assumed that you will have access to a computer – punishing the innocent, that in itself may not be lawful or in keeping with the french constitution). plus: we’re still paying the levy on blank media that was never repealed when HADOPI criminalised the act that the levy was supposed to counter against; remind me again – who are the freetards in this equation? The users who rip off songs from YouTube or movies once in a while ’cos broadcast telly is getting increasingly pointless….or the corporations who profit from every single pack of DVD-Rs or SD card sold?

Of course you could implement other security measures but that would be far from trivial.

Related to the above – maybe in some country or other you might end up paying a fine if your network was unsecured…

…but in most places you will find that if ripped-off content can be traced back to your IP address, you’ll have to answer to humourless guys who expect you to plead innocent “just like everybody else does”.
Forget the fine, it is in a person’s interests to make their network as secure as it can be. And if that means ditching else WEP-only hardware, then go for it – drop-kick it out the door.
Then, when the suits come a’callin, there’s a good chance that you (note: third-party “you”, not you specifically) will know exactly what they are on about. Of course you will plead innocence, everybody always does, that’s how the script is written. Ain’t nobody in the Verse that actually says “it’s a fair cop, guv” or “you got me bang to rights”.

Hidden SSID,
No good if you expect to fire up your computer/phone and get it to auto-connect. I found most of the time I tried it, things wouldn’t connect unless I told them too – and usefully Windows kept asking for the password which on my router is an obscenely long string of hex.

You think that scenario is bad for connection? I’m not too badly off, sitting here facing south, on my left I have a school Aruba network with security so unlikely to cause a channel hop and connect attempt. Next door to the right I have a BT homehub only running WEP and the regular open wifi (stand close to the right hand end of the lounge and a rebooted laptop may skip to the open wifi, except I configure for a specific visible SSID.
Low level signals here give a count of 24.

Wow. Where do you live!? “Encouraging theft”? That’s like raising a family carrying a fine for encouraging paedos… it just doesn’t make sense.

I knew you’d like it but courts do think it
makes sense:

I. General traffic regulations (§§ 1 – 35 )
§ 14
Due diligence when entering and exiting
(1) When boarding or leaving one must ensure that a danger to other road users is excluded.
(2) When the driver exits his vehicle, he must take the necessary measures to prevent accidents or traffic congestion. Motor vehicles must be secured against unauthorized use.

Sorry for bot the OT and crude Google translation
I’ll better stop with the car analogies ;-)

but courts do think it makes sense

Look at the Apple vs Samsung (judge: Lucy Koh) for a great example of how logical courts can be…

• Found in favour of Apple…in Apple’s home town!
• No retrail despite comments made by a juror (head juror) himself that are more than enough to make one suspect the verdict was rather influenced by his actions.
• Apparently it was not the remit of the court to judge whether or not the patents are actually valid; so Samsung phones were banned from sale (order by judge pre-trial) and an award of a biiiilion dollars (not so much with these exchange rates!) without passing the elemental step of “is this a bogus patent?”.
• It has been all but stated that the position of the US Patent Office is to approve everything that isn’t an obvious copy of something, vague wording included, and let the courts sort out the mess. Obviously congress is a bunch of lawyers as no country with an ounce of sanity would do so much to kick its own manufacturing/industry in the balls.

I can rather understand the position of leaving the patents untested – a secret weapon is a weapon that can be used even if it is a banana in a paper back. Show it as a banana in a paper bag, it is no weapon at all. Except in Texas where the concept of prior art doesn’t seem to exist.

I can also rather understand the position of Lucy Koh (QC? Rt Hon? Her Wiki article doesn’t state if she has a title) because rather than being the case to make her career, it could well be the one to break it as each twist and turn gets further and further from any sense of reality. And there she is caught in the middle of what may in time turn out to be a failed and/or biased trial with two sides both of whom are sore losers, one who cries like a petchulant baby. Sucks to be her.

Oh, and if a judge tries to trick you by holding up a tablet ten feet away (3 metres), ask her to hold up both. Because it is hard to tell an iPad 2 from a Galaxy Tab 10.1 when you’re looking at just one [hint: iPad 2 has a home button] However, side-by-side it is dead easy. The iPad seems to prefer a 4:3 aspect display. Might be nice for padding, but’d be a bit crap for watching movies. The Galaxy is a 16:10 display (a compromise for work area size while not letterboxing video content too much – a lot of Android phones are 16:10).
I own neither and I know that! Just part of the useless collection of random facts floating around in my head. ;-)

Motor vehicles must be secured against unauthorized use.

Sorry for the OT… but owning a vehicle which is designed to require a key to start the engine (and not leaving said key in the ignition) could be considered as sufficiently securing against unauthorized use. I know as much about hot-wiring cars as I do about RISC OS coding, but gather that it’s much simpler to smash a car window than to hotwire the engine.

I was thinking of a separate access point that would be powered up as needed, it would be NATted to the main network with only one static address routed through (and DHCP providing the wrong address). All firewall restrictions would be to that address. (An unused Cable router could probably provide what is needed).

However, in your own home, a cable would usually be simpler. (Or even using the cable router as an access point.)

I was thinking of a separate access point that would be powered up as needed, it would be NATted to the main network with only one static address routed through (and DHCP providing the wrong address).

http://www.wireshark.org
Data capture – read the info and then think a bit about why it doesn’t matter what the DHCP offering is telling an authenticated user (bear in mind that the IP offering is only made after the authentication sequence.

You want a secure network – stick it in a locked room with no connection out. Semi-secure, used wired. weak security used wireless and apply all the encryption you can, and forget all the myths about hiding SSIDs etc.

If only one IP address has access to the internet, the only time when an unauthorized machine could use the internet is when the authorized machine is switched off. Otherwise there will be an ip clash.

If only one IP address has access to the internet, the only time when an unauthorized machine could use the internet is when the authorized machine is switched off. Otherwise there will be an ip clash.

If you read the other items (fast reader) then read the info on “man-in-the-middle” and “spoofing”
If you don’t believe me, check the documentation out there – wireless just isn’t secure. You can make it not wide open, but secure isn’t really possible on the typical home kit.

Very few people I would think, because without WPA2 it would usually require a lot of care to make unauthorized use difficult enough to be unattractive.

owning a vehicle which is designed to require a key to start the engine (and not leaving said key in the ignition) could be considered as sufficiently securing against unauthorized use.

Could, but isn’t and would you really argue against 80yrs of precedent? After all it’ll just cost you 15 EUR. You’re supposed to use whatever security measures exist, within reason. The same applies to IT and would be foolish not to IMHO.

WHO IS GOING TO USE A WIRELESS NETWORK AT HOME OR WORK? If you are at home or work use wired

That’s all fine but would render both my tablet and WiFi phone useless, streaming media to my TV would become very difficult indeed and why own a shiny MacBook if you’ll only use it as a desktop machine?
You can hack into wired networks and obviously into outbound traffic yet we don’t use typewriters.

but secure isn’t really possible on the typical home kit.

Secure is difficult enough to do in a professional context – so in domestic kit the best you can do is enable enough encrpytion and a solid password (not “secret” or somesuch!) to make other people’s (lesser secured) kit seem like a more attractive proposition. After all – unless it is “personal”, somebody is going to go where the going is easier.

WHO IS GOING TO USE A WIRELESS NETWORK AT HOME OR WORK?

I use wireless exclusively at home. Three Android phones cannot plug into a wired network, and given the old house/stone walls thing it is not really in my interests to hook up a wired network when I get a lot more flexibility with WiFi.

Add to this – my (old) Livebox was hit by lighting on the phone line. It must have been a fairly direct and close strike because it blew up the insides of the Livebox and fried everything directly connected to it. Imagine if it was hooked to a router and a pile of computers.

At work? They have ditched the big computers and wired networks to go for laptops and WiFi. This allows one person to take their files and stuff around rather than the chaotic “log in as who? where?” routine of times past.

WiFi offers a lot of convenience.

WiFi on RISC OS? Pretty please? ;-)

You’re supposed to use whatever security measures exist, within reason

[off topic]
Back in the early ‘90s my mom accidently locked her keys in the MG Metro she had at the time. She was doing work at a comp. school near Camberley. She went into the building not sure what to do. A teacher who won’t be named said “let me go take a look”. He came back less than a minute later and handed her the keys. Apparently most cars (back then, maybe it is better now?) need to have crook-locks and immobilisers because if you know how then doors are not difficult to open.

Our C1 doesn’t have a steering/wheel lock. It is kinda bizarre to turn the car off and not need to click the wheel to lock it. This is because the car has a hardcore immobiliser that is hooked directly into the engine management unit – if the key isn’t there, the car won’t start. The end.
So, we could leave the doors wide open. The best you could do was try to nick the radio…
[/off topic]

[aldershot]
Jensen used to have a little lever next to the exhaust that you could pull in order to gain access but they had to change it on the Mk II as insurance premiums went through the roof ;-)
Truth be told: I never bothered to lock my Triumph Spitfire except over night. Then again who’d steal a car that’d probably break down within a few minutes?
[/aldershot]

Back on topic: since talk is cheap wouldn’t WiFi support justify a bounty? It’s not going to happen anytime soon and probably needs extensive work in other fields (like the USB stack) but we could start saving pennies now.

WHO IS GOING TO USE A WIRELESS NETWORK AT HOME OR WORK?

Me; I’m out of wired connections. I can easily get away with an unsecured WiFi because my nearest neighbour is out of range. So yes, even a really basic usb→wifi doohickey would have utility.

Also I do not understand how you can run out of wired IPs and still have wireless available? What router do you have that provides such a lopsided allocation?

I believe Tim was talking about physical ports to the router rather than IP’s.
Most home routers will hand out the same range to physical and wireless anyway. People with a Cisco router will be few and far between.

I only have 181 devices on my home network

What kind of router do you have with 181 sockets on the side!?

If you do decide to target a wifi usb, could you let us know which one, please? (I need one for a PC and it would make sense if it were that to allow testing, and I’m sure I’m not the only person in that situation.)

DavidS, you seriously have 181 devices on your net? Holy Kao, what are they all? If you can automagically generate a list without wasting too much time I’d be fascinated.

But otherwise, what Steve said; I ran out of holes in the box.

I ran out of holes in the box.

Sometimes standard 19 inch rack mount switches come in handy as a shelf and expand the connectivity by 48 ports. I have spares.

I have spares.
A generous offer but I’m not sure I could afford the postage to my secret lair in the rainforest of my Pacific Island hideaway. ;-)
Besides, we want to coerce DavidS into making something wifi-ish work on USB, don’t we?

I will get something working, though give me some time to finish sorting out this USB jungle.

Don’t rush, one at a time and only at your pace.
Remember this is voluntary work you are doing so you set the rules regarding speed.

Gratitude from everyone here is a given, what should also be present is patience waiting for a good outcome.
So – everyone sit and wait patiently.
I will and the outcome may be that I can use the Pi in the living room instead of my cabled up “computer room” (otherwise known as a spare bedroom)

Don’t rush, one at a time and only at your pace.

Certainly – that’s why I said the kernel work should be baby steps. When you have time and aptitude, the “TODO list” is prone to grow quicker than you can add items to it! It may be preferable at this time to work on smaller peripheral tasks, and the larger things could be co-ordinated as a joint effort to share the task of “big stuff”.

Gratitude from everyone here is a given, what should also be present is patience waiting for a good outcome.

…plus assistance with testing, debugging, etc. Every step forward is a step in the right direction.

So – everyone sit and wait patiently.

…like Apple fanbois on release day. <giggle>

I will and the outcome may be that I can use the Pi in the living room instead of my cabled up “computer room” (otherwise known as a spare bedroom)

I have an intranet in the bedroom. Since I run open shares and VNC (DVD burning, etc), the intranet is not connected to the internet (and nor will it ever be). I did have a play with XP’s connection sharing but that failed miserably. Everything online is online via WiFi. There is no wired internet access (no point with two netbooks and three Android phones). It would be great to add RISC OS to that.

Plus, just by way of example, I am sitting about 4 metres away from the Livebox 2; and I am downloading Robotics;Notes #17 at 6.5mbit/sec with a “Low/Weak” signal. I should mention that it is the other side of a 4-5ft thick stone wall. Adding wired ethernet is pretty much a non-starter. As it is, the intranet is a D-Link router stuck to the back of an old DeskJet on the table with a wire going out to each of the devices connected…
I post this last paragraph as a head’s up to the person who earlier in the month wondered why anybody would use WiFi – for some people, it just works better that way.