Filer_Action key shortcuts

I thought I’d add keyboard shortcuts to Filer_Action.

My intended scheme is probably this:

Escape = Abort / OK
Enter = OK / Quiet / Continue
CTRL-F = toggle Faster
CTRL-N = No
CTRL-O = Open
CTRL-P = Pause
CTRL-R = Restart
CTRL-S = Skip
CTRL-T = reTry
CTRL-U = rUn
CTRL-V = View
CTRL-Y = Yes

(edit – updated that list to the current implementation)

I was thinking of making it so that clicking anywhere in the FA window gives it the focus, but a new FA window only grabs the focus if it was opened from the Filer.

I’d probably implement this by adding a new flag bit to R2 of Message_FilerAction – bit 5 = give FA window the focus when it opens.

Therefore, applications which open FA windows without user interaction can choose to not grab the focus away from whatever the user is doing at the time.

Thoughts and comments welcome.

I thought I’d add keyboard shortcuts to Filer_Action

Um, doesn’t that rather negate the point of filer action? It’s there to quietly perform the file operation in the background. If you have to give it the focus (to accept the keypress) then why not just press the button with the mouse instead?

You could take a look at this bug instead.

A pause option the worked when it doesn’t have focus would be useful. (for “oops i didn’t mean to do that” and when the copying is slowing down the thing you are doing in the foreground.)

What would be nice would be if it could queue the actions in one window. (And perhaps have another window available if you need to change priority or cancel.)

Um, doesn’t that rather negate the point of filer action? It’s there to quietly perform the file operation in the background. If you have to give it the focus (to accept the keypress) then why not just press the button with the mouse instead?

Well, as I said above, I had envisaged giving a FA window focus if it’s opened by the Filer. The Filer has key shortcuts, it seems a logical extension to make Filer_Action respond to keys as well.

Otherwise you can start, say, a delete operation with the keyboard and then have to move to the mouse to confirm it.

Filer_Action isn’t always a background operation – and if the user wants to carry on working in another window I can’t see how this change would affect them.

On idea might be to only give FA the focus if the filer window that started it had focus itself, or if a keyboard shortcut was used from the Filer.

Otherwise you can start, say, a delete operation with the keyboard and then have to move to the mouse to confirm it.

That’s one of the things I would say against RISC OS is that there is an absolute dependence on the mouse. Consider any dialogue with a load of options, like !Boot [config] → Discs, for instance. You can Tab between ADFS DirCache and ADFS Buffers; but can you Tab over to floppy drives and press Down to set to zero? Or Tab over to RAMdisc and press Space to enable it?

That all RISC OS machines came with a mouse as standard means that the UI just expects a mouse to always be present so the support for keyboard in the UI is a little lacking; however sometimes leaving the keyboard to reach for the mouse to point it at something to click…isn’t necessarily the fastest way.

Did you know you can now TAB / Shift-TAB between Filer windows? I just found that out!

More keyboard support in the UI would definitely be a good thing, IMHO.

Um, doesn’t that rather negate the point of filer action? It’s there to quietly perform the file operation in the background.

One idea might be to only give FA the focus if the filer window that started it had focus itself, or if a keyboard shortcut was used from the Filer.

It looks like a recipe for user interface inconsistency and the irksome child-tugging-at-your-coat change of focus that happens so much in Windows. For example, starting a big job off in the background, then swapping to Word to carry on typing, only to find the odd letters get lost when a command window briefly opens in the background and steals the focus.

Taking your example, starting a delete from the filer, confirming it, how do I get back to the filer to do what I want to do next? Filer action (which should be doing the last thing I commanded) now has the focus. I’d have to click back to the filer, so the total mouse clicks saved is zero.

CTRL-V = View

Please no. That’s paste.

Wasn’t Filer Action Keyboard Shortcuts included in a later version of Select?
Using the same set would seem sensible!

Wasn’t Filer Action Keyboard Shortcuts included in a later version of Select?
Using the same set would seem sensible!

What does the Select documentation say?

Good point on CTRL-V. Nothing is set in stone yet anyway.

I can see this whole issue is contentious at best! I’m not going to commit any of my work on this unless I sense there’s some sort of agreement that this is a positive change.

I feel, as Rick Murray said, that we do need better keyboard control in RISC OS, but perhaps people don’t want it in Filer_Action windows? Or is it just a case of not wanting to change a familiar interface, even though the changes might be for the better?

Carry on the debate :)

RISC OS has always been over-reliant on the mouse in my view (as is OS X), but I don’t really like the idea of always stealing focus. Do filer action windows always open immediately? What if there is a brief pause for some reason and in the intervening time I click on another window and start typing into it? Perhaps allow focus to be taken by the window if you click in it and then respond to the keyboard shortcuts, or have a setting in !Configure or a system variable that allows you to specify whether or filer windows should take focus or not in the circumstances described.

It’s not really “stealing” focus – I would describe that as when a window opens, unprompted, grabs the focus and annoys the user.

A FA window will always open in response to a user action. Although it can be delayed if, say, verbose mode is off, but the FA window has to open to get a confirmation, or report the results when the operation is finished.

So, a delayed FA window should probably not claim focus… it’s looking increasingly complicated to get this to behave nicely.

Rik: For QuickFiler shortcuts & some/all of RISC OS six shortcuts see: http://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums/2/topics/39
and some discussion at http://www.drobe.co.uk/article.php?id=2132

In RISC OS Six Filer Shortcuts
If ‘Enable Keyboard Shrtcuts’ is ticked
Two extra options have their greying out removed.
Claim input focus automatically
Retain viewers when navigating

Function keys also used e.g. F4= refresh * Typo it is F5 as would be expected.

Function keys also used e.g. F4= refresh

Now there was me thinking that most users of other OS’s coming to RO would expect F5 as refresh and that most existing RO users would expect F4 to be involved in a text search.

^ What he said. Who on earth picked F4 as a refresh key, given its already documented use as Search within RISC OS?!?

What does the Select documentation say?

• Add keyboard shortcuts to Filer (like QuickFiler?)

Sorry Typo, it is F5 as expected.
RISCOS Ltd went for popular standards like CTRL C Copy to clipboard, CTRL V paste from clipboard.

Any chance ROOLs !Edit can be changed to CTRL C Copy to clipboard, CTRL V paste from clipboard?

I think many more of RISCOS Ltd’s Select features will need to be added before I’d be more productive on a Pi than my trusty RPC!

Perhaps the directors of ROL could be persuaded that there’s more to gain for their other businesses from an expanding market (for RISC OS 5) by co-operating with ROOL than by sitting on an ‘investment’ just for the sake of it.

I think many more of RISCOS Ltd’s Select features will need to be added before I’d be more productive on a Pi than my trusty RPC!

Sadly true :-( Although make that trusty RPC a trusty Omega in my case!

Perhaps the directors of ROL could be persuaded that there’s more to gain for their other businesses from an expanding market (for RISC OS 5) by co-operating with ROOL

Amen to that.

Back on the original topic – I think it seems logical for the Filer Action window to accept key shortcuts if the main Filer window does. It would be very frustrating to start an operation from the keyboard then have to move back to the mouse to confirm it.

Having said that, is there an option to turn off Filer keyboard shortcuts? I don’t use them and am finding it annoying having the Filer windows take away input focus from what I’m actually working on. Or maybe an option so the Filer only gets input focus if you alt-click in the window?