Filer

- have a ‘move to’ menu entry. The only way to move an object currently is to use the keyboard (shift and drag). A ‘move to’ icon could be dragged to the desired location for a fully WIMP way of moving.

- make date display format (when showing full info) customisable, e.g. ISO 8601 compliant format YYYY-MM-DD (instead of 24 Aug 2013).

- vertical display option (sort by columns top to bottom rather than rows left to right as now) of icons other than in full info view

- keyboard focus. would entail title bar turning yellow first, which it doesn’t do now. Would then be able to use cursor keyboard arrow keys to move which object is currently selected. maybe pressing return would simulate a double click to open a file. ctrl+c could copy etc. delete to delete!

- inbuilt thumbnailing of graphics files without having to use 3rd party app

- File/directory XXXX > ‘Rename’ (and ‘delete’ and ‘set type’?) menu entries should be greyed out if those operations cannot be performed ie object is protected.

- why is there a ‘set type’ dialog box for directories, which does nothing if used?

- when you have selected a number of items in a directory and go to ‘count’ menu, have sub menus to count number of top-level objects only, or to include (as now) all sub-dirs.

- when a filename is too long to fit in window the filer puts a forward slash / character at the end. This makes it look like the filename ends there and only a file extn is missing.

- option to show a column in full info view for hex filetype (whether or not there is a more userfriendly file type name associated with it)

- ‘sort by type’ sorts by the hex filetype. but this isn’t displayed in any of the view modes (ie, full info)!. What is displayed- the filetype name such as “MSWord”- cannot be sorted alphabetically. should be able to sort by filetype name.

- ‘count’ option results window could give more info than just no. files counted (including sub dirs) and bytes total. For example, it could give the number of files and the number of dirs. and the number of each in the top level directory only. {i’d like to select a group of dirs and count how many I selected)

- option to swap 2 selected filenames

- in the “new directory” box that comes up where you type the name and then can drag the icon to any filer window, it would be nice to have a tickbox “open after” which you can tick if you want, and it opens that directory in a new filer window. this can be useful with directories containing lots of objects where otherwise you have to find your new directory (which may entail selecting sort by date to see it at the top, then going back to sort by name or whatever).

- when creating new directory, disable illegal (for file system) characters from appearing from the keyboard input (like #). If you do type them and press return, it currently gives an error and the whole operation is cancelled with no chance to go back and change typed name

- option to sort the same way as !ftpc. ie. list all directories first in alph order, then all files in alph order

- give a warning before deleting non-empty directories

Hello Ewen,

Welcome to RISC OS Open!

- have a ‘move to’ menu entry. The only way to move an object currently is to use the keyboard (shift and drag). A ‘move to’ icon could be dragged to the desired location for a fully WIMP way of moving.

Not a bad idea – for copying and deleting the originals might be a workaround, however copying can be slow for large files. If on the same partition, a move is a matter of changing where the file is indexed, not where the file itself is stored (in other words, instantaneous).

- make date display format (when showing full info) customisable, e.g. ISO 8601 compliant format YYYY-MM-DD (instead of 24 Aug 2013).

Yes; but please allow customisable separators (I detest the dash version, I use slashes, like yyyy/mm/dd). I think, to be honest, this is best handled by the Territory manager. The filer (and anything else) should ask the Territory manager how they would like this date to be presented, and Territory will reply accordingly. Saves having, in the future, multiple things reinventing the same wheel.

- keyboard focus. would entail title bar turning yellow first, which it doesn’t do now. Would then be able to use cursor keyboard arrow keys to move which object is currently selected. maybe pressing return would simulate a double click to open a file. ctrl+c could copy etc. delete to delete!

I think you can use ^K to delete selected files, can’t you? Very basic keyboard support, but something.

I don’t like the use of “Delete”. RISC OS has no built it “Trash” system, so a specific unlikely-to-happen-by-mistake keypress (such as ^K) is preferable, IMHBLIO.

- inbuilt thumbnailing of graphics files without having to use 3rd party app

Something I miss from Thomas Olssen’s FilerPro / Filer+. Oh, and it did keyboard shortcuts and a dozen other cool things.

One observation I recall from back then – generating the thumbnails wasn’t too quick, and caching them could use a bit of memory. This, obviously, is much less concern when we’re comparing 700+MHz systems with 256+Mb memory against a 25MHz machine with 4Mb onboard. ;-)
Should the thumbnail cache remain in memory, be thrown out if the directory hasn’t been opened in a while, and rebuilt on demand…
…or should the thumbnails be generated once and saved in a file with a name like “thumbs/spr”? Remember, we don’t have “hidden” files in RISC OS.

- File/directory XXXX > ‘Rename’ (and ‘delete’ and ‘set type’?) menu entries should be greyed out if those operations cannot be performed ie object is protected.

That’s actually a pretty good idea. I’d be inclined to go a step further and superimpose a little padlock icon on top of the file icon to make it clear that this file is “locked”.

- why is there a ‘set type’ dialog box for directories, which does nothing if used?

Um… Good question.

- when you have selected a number of items in a directory and go to ‘count’ menu, have sub menus to count number of top-level objects only, or to include (as now) all sub-dirs.

What do you mean, only count one level deep? Why?
[I note that Windows XP works in a way similar to RISC OS – when told to count a selection of objects, it will count everything that comprises that selection]

- when a filename is too long to fit in window the filer puts a forward slash / character at the end.

It does? I will need to look at my Pi more closely later, I thought it just clipped the filename.
Displaying something like “…” is more logical.

- ‘sort by type’ sorts by the hex filetype. but this isn’t displayed in any of the view modes (ie, full info)!

Real nerds know all the filetypes by heart. Well, the important ones, at least. ;-)

What is displayed- the filetype name such as “MSWord”- cannot be sorted alphabetically. should be able to sort by filetype name.

While it is a perfectly reasonable idea, I don’t feel that the current by-hex method is specifically broken. Surely “sort by type” is useful to group files of a similar type?

This isn’t always obvious on a PC either – for instance on my machine JPEGs are called “ULead PhotoImpact image” and PDFs are called “Adobe Acrobat Document”, so these will appear under ‘U’ and ‘A’ respectively, and not ‘J’ and ‘P’ as one might expect from the file extension. But this doesn’t matter, as when in sort by type, files of the same type are grouped regardless whether ‘X’ is grouped at the start, middle, or end of the list.

- ‘count’ option results window could give more info than just no. files counted (including sub dirs) and bytes total. For example, it could give the number of files and the number of dirs.

Not a bad idea.

and the number of each in the top level directory only. {i’d like to select a group of dirs and count how many I selected)

…? Can’t you just count ’em?

- option to swap 2 selected filenames

I have a feeling this might be waaaay down the bottom of the wishlist. :-)

- in the “new directory” box that comes up where you type the name and then can drag the icon to any filer window, it would be nice to have a tickbox “open after” which you can tick if you want, and it opens that directory in a new filer window.

Not a bad idea.

- when creating new directory, disable illegal (for file system) characters from appearing from the keyboard input (like #). If you do type them and press return, it currently gives an error and the whole operation is cancelled with no chance to go back and change typed name

Does the Filer know what characters are (in)valid for any given filesystem? I’m not sure how much specific knowledge the generic filer has.

But certainly FileCore-specific symbols should be omitted.

It’s an interesting question – you can filter out symbols in an icon using validation strings, but can you do the same with a writeable menu option? Mmm, now where did I put PRM3…? ;-)

- option to sort the same way as !ftpc. ie. list all directories first in alph order, then all files in alph order

Oh, how Windowsy! Somehow I prefer my things mixed together so I know “Music” is about halfway down where something beginning ‘M’ should be.

- give a warning before deleting non-empty directories

Yes. And preferably an “Are you sure?” if the directory contains subdirectories and/or there are more than about 30 files in there. Again, there is no default Trash or undo, so once you’ve committed, you’re stuck if you realise “oh my god, I clicked OK before actually reading the message”¹ now what have I done?

Thank you for taking the time to post your suggestions.

¹ Come on, we’ve all done that…

– in the “new directory” box that comes up where you type the name and then can drag the icon to any filer window, it would be nice to have a tickbox “open after” which you can tick if you want, and it opens that directory in a new filer window.

Not a bad idea.

Perhaps adjust-dragging would be more in keeping with things, but whatever, this would certainly be useful.

Welcome to RISC OS Open!

Is 5 years of lurking some sort of record?

Sorry. I take that back, after recalling your bug reports!

Welcome to RISC OS Open!

What are you on about? He’s been here longer than you, judging by his ‘user number’.

- keyboard focus. would entail title bar turning yellow first, which it doesn’t do now.

It actually does that here (RO 5.21, 23-07-2013). Turn yellow I mean.

Would then be able to use cursor keyboard arrow keys to move which object is currently selected. maybe pressing return would simulate a double click to open a file. ctrl+c could copy etc.

That would be nice…

delete to delete!

…but not sure about that one. On VRPC I’ve switched on the option to warn before deleting because the Delete key works like that. Much too easy to hit accidentally.

I don’t like the use of “Delete”. RISC OS has no built it “Trash” system, so a specific unlikely-to-happen-by-mistake keypress (such as ^K) is preferable, IMHBLIO.

Yup.

- in the “new directory” box that comes up where you type the name and then can drag the icon to any filer window, it would be nice to have a tickbox “open after” which you can tick if you want, and it opens that directory in a new filer window.

Good one.

- option to sort the same way as !ftpc. ie. list all directories first in alph order, then all files in alph order

And this. Use that option all the time on my Linux box. And Rick, are you sure Windows was the first to come up with it?

you can filter out symbols in an icon using validation strings, but can you do the same with a writeable menu option?

The writable menu option should be replaced with a dbox.

What are you on about? He’s been here longer than you, judging by his ‘user number’.

Posts = 1. There’s a difference between reading and participating…
Or should we not say hello on a user’s first post?

And Rick, are you sure Windows was the first to come up with it?

I didn’t say it was the first, I just said it was “Windowsy”, which given the market share and deployment of Windows since W95, may well be the most common example of this behaviour, which is not to say that they were the first. ;-)

There’s another thread full of filer improvement ideas here:

http://riscosopen.org/forum/forums/2/topics/150

Rik Griffin was going to try a rewrite using the Toolbox. I don’t know how far it got.

Every time I upgrade RISC OS I have to repeat the rigmarole of patching the Filer module so that the Delete option appears in red. That way it is harder to delete things accidentally. Is it not time that the Filer module got its menu data from resourceFS instead of having it hardwired in the code?

- when a filename is too long to fit in window the filer puts a forward slash / character at the end.

It does? I will need to look at my Pi more closely later, I thought it just clipped the filename. Displaying something like “…” is more logical

It does display “…”. Some fonts (might be the iSV ones, but ICBW) have a “/” where an ellipsis is expected, which also messes up many menu entries leading to dialogue boxes. Try switching the desktop to Homerton and see what happens.

Hello all, and thanks for the welcome Rick.

- when a filename is too long to fit in window the filer puts a forward slash / character at the end.

Thanks for pointing out this is due to certain fonts (I was using Franklin) not having an ellipsis, Steve; no fault with the filer there then.

- keyboard focus. would entail title bar turning yellow first, which it doesn’t do now

You’re right Frank, filer windows already do turn yellow, so that request of mine was pointless.

I think you can use ^K to delete selected files, can’t you? Very basic keyboard support, but something.

I just tried this with 2 files selected but couldn’t get them to delete, I tried Ctrl-K, Shift-K and Alt-K. If there were an existing shortcut key combo I’d expect it to be shown next to the delete option in the filer menu.

Should the thumbnail cache remain in memory, be thrown out if the directory hasn’t been opened in a while, and rebuilt on demand…
…or should the thumbnails be generated once and saved in a file with a name like “thumbs/spr”? Remember, we don’t have “hidden” files in RISC OS.

Presumably something along the lines of how NetSurf stores a cache in !scrap. Perhaps being auto deleted after a while. I would definitely say no to a ‘hidden’ file in the directories with the images which contains thumbnails like windows. Don’t modern digital camera photos also contain miniature versions of the image anyway, thereby meaning no processor time needed to create thumbnails on the hoof?

I realise my suggestions about counting files and swapping filenames are probably not high up the priority list, they are just there because I once needed that feature so I noted it down.

Hi Ewen for quoting it is:
blank line
bq.
(There is a space after the . on the line above)
The one good thing is you can go back and edit it!

Ewen suggested:

have a ‘move to’ menu entry.

Or a ‘Move’ tickbox in the Copy savebox.

why is there a ‘set type’ dialog box for directories, which does nothing if used?

It doesn’t do ‘nothing’, it asks the underlying file system to set the type of the directory. The Filer doesn’t currently make any use of that information (if the underlying filing system can store it) but that’s not the same as it doing ‘nothing’.

when a filename is too long to fit in window the filer puts a forward slash / character at the end

Uggh. RO4 and anyone familiar with punctuation use an ellipsis.

Some fonts (might be the iSV ones, but ICBW) have a “/” where an ellipsis is expected

Oh that. You can blame the Electronic Font Foundry for that ‘innovation’. I used to supply an ‘EFFLatin1’ Encoding to apply that character set to fonts with the Acorn Latin1 Encoding.

in the “new directory” box that comes up where you type the name and then can drag the icon to any filer window, it would be nice to have a tickbox “open after” which you can tick if you want

I can’t imagine one would often want the new directory NOT to open… and one would hardly be inconvenienced if it did. In other words, the Filer should always open the new directory.

Some fonts (might be the iSV ones, but ICBW) have a “/” where an ellipsis is expected.

Oh that. You can blame the Electronic Font Foundry for that ‘innovation’.

Ah. Apologies to iSV, then. I’ve largely forgotten whose fonts are whose on this system now, unfortunately.

I can’t imagine one would often want the new directory NOT to open… and one would hardly be inconvenienced if it did. In other words, the Filer should always open the new directory.

I wouldn’t agree with that myself, there could be times when I want to create lots of directories and I don’t want to open them at the same time. Making this automatically happen could be an annoyance. Especially if the new windows open partly obscuring the original one.

I’ve finally edited my earlier post to show the quoting correctly; thanks for the info Chris. It would be great if the ‘Formatting Help’ that appears at the bottom of each page had a quick mention of how to quote.

I’ve also come up with another point to mention. If I use the filer to rename a (text) file with capitals eg I type the name “ABC”, then it actually appears as “Abc”. Is this the filer automatically deciding to decapitalise, or is it perhaps some 3rd party module I’ve got installed? I don’t remember this happening in the past. It has proved annoying; I recently had to create a whole raft of directories whose names were the initials of people, I wanted them all in capitals and I can’t have it! I know case makes no difference to the underlying way the filing system works, but the appearance matters too.

There is a bug which means that if you rename a file ‘ABc’ to ‘abC’ it does nothing. In other words you cannot change the capitalisation of a file by renaming it (or by copying a file of different capitalisation onto it).

You have to do it in two steps: ‘ABc’ to ‘ABCD’ then to ‘abC’ works.

There is a bug which means that if you rename a file ‘ABc’ to ‘abC’ it does nothing.

Can you name a specific filing system for which this is true?

LanManFS used to have a problem, but that was fixed in 2009 , and I’m assuming your sweeping aspersion is more recent than that.

You can certainly rename to change the case in 5.21 on the Iyonix using ADFS from the desktop. How are you doing the rename? I am pretty sure rename to change case works. My ID3TagEd app does this specifically – it does a case aware compare of old and new filenames and renames if the non-case filename is the same but the case differs. I have never seen any problems using adfs, sharefs and fat32fs.

Seems to be just DOS image files (which is DOSFS I think?). Can’t duplicate it now using hostfs, scsifs or adfs…

I’ve seen this ‘feature’ and I’ve never knowingly used LanManFS. Sorry I can’t recall the FS!

I have seen this feature with various versions of HostFS. But we all know that HostFS is broken in multiple ways. Never seen it on other FSes with the exception of a very early version of X-Files. Or was it raFS? Or TBAFS?

ISTR seeing it too and have never used HostFS. Will file a bug report when I’m able to check (assuming I can identify it as repeatable, etc.)… if no one beats me to it!

Will file a bug report when I’m able to check

If it is limited to DOSFS, I’d append it as a note to ticket #313, since the rename function is already barely working – anyone fixing it might as well get cased renames right while they’re at it.

I type the name “ABC”, then it actually appears as “Abc”.

I have just come up against this with a USB stick and a Pi, which uses Fat32FS.

I transferred a lot of apps so that I could move my development work from machine to machine. It has been a pain, because I have many BASIC libraries that call an initialistion function with the same name as the file.

I have solved my immediate problem, but it might still be something worth fixing.