ROOL ROM branding

I’m definitely of the opinion that all ROMs should have the same branding, partly because of the issues Michael cites (with working out what branding is most appropriate for multi-machine ROMs), and partly because the “RISC OS 5 experience” should be pretty much the same no matter which ROM/machine you’re using it on.

I agree with this. I like Michael’s oak-leaf idea, and also the 3D cog. The important thing, IMO, is that if the logo is replaced then it should be used on all OS versions.

I think RISC OS needs a modern look by default. This would avoid the initial impression of an 80/90s system, which brings what the system can’t do to the front of a potential new user’s mind. A modern look, will bring make someone notice what the system can do (i.e. the window control system)

I’ve thought this for a while, though I appreciate that plenty of people don’t like the idea of messing with themes on the desktop.

In case it’s of interest, here are some screenshots using the latest version of my theme manager plug-in. The main change is a distinction between the icon set used by the Filer and the graphics used to draw window tools and gadgets. The first screenshot, for example, shows my icon set combined with my window tools theme (called Clarity). The second shows Iyonix window furniture alongside ROL’s icon set.

Screen 1

Screen 2

I wouldn’t. If you run Ubuntu on it, I doubt they’d change the main Ubuntu logo on the dash to a Raspberry Pi logo. I’d rather see some unity across RISC OS installations. When you run Windows on some branded PC, you’d never see the Windows logo on the start menu opener thing replaced with, say, a Dell icon.

Windows and Ubuntu don’t exactly have the same design philosophy as RISC OS.

EDIT: PC manufacturers usually change the wallpaper, the windows logo is hard coded in.

Also, it makes documentation difficult. E.g. “To shutdown go to the icon (which could look like anything) in the bottom right”.

But that is exactly the situation we already have. On RPC and newer hardware, it could already be, an Acorn, a Cube, a cog, a bean or 4 cogs.

I think the switcher should be what is changed for branding, and the rest of the (default) look common for that version of the OS.

I like the Oak leaf, but I would use it as the branding for Acorn Hardware.

In case it’s of interest, here are some screenshots using the latest version of my theme manager plug-in. The main change is a distinction between the icon set used by the Filer and the graphics used to draw window tools and gadgets. The first screenshot, for example, shows my icon set combined with my window tools theme (called Clarity). The second shows Iyonix window furniture alongside ROL’s icon set.

Link please. That looks like a really good enhancement.

It would also be good if it had the option to set the fonts and pinboard in a similar manner (and a separate “Replace Swicher” option)

But that is exactly the situation we already have. On RPC and newer hardware, it could already be, an Acorn, a Cube, a cog, a bean or 4 cogs.

That’s the situation and the problem. There’s nothing to symbolise RISC OS. When I created http://www.netsurf-browser.org/downloads/ I ended up drawing my own logo for RISC OS. For the other platforms it was easy to find an appropriate logo. The Atari and Windows logos were easy to find (and obvious) too, but they’re not up there yet.

Historically the switcher logo has been as closely tied to the hardware, as the operating system version.

(e.g. Archimedes logo, Acorn logo, Iyonix jellybean vs. RO cube, cog and 4 cog.)

I feel it would be best to fit in with this.

I do not feel this is the same situation as not having a RISC OS symbol. (Which I agree is a problem.).

The RISC OS logo, (as much as there is one) pops up in “About the operating system” (As well as the shadow of the jelly bean).

If the switcher is regarded as being the RISC OS logo, then creating a new one only makes the problem worse.

If the switcher is regarded as branding for the hardware (and maybe the OS version too), then such a problem does not exist.

Historically the switcher logo has been as closely tied to the hardware, as the operating system version.
(e.g. Archimedes logo, Acorn logo, Iyonix jellybean vs. RO cube, cog and 4 cog.)

Well I think Acorn tried to make it just one single Acorn logo for all hardware and OS versions. They obviously failed to foresee their demise, or that RISC OS would continue to be developed after. :) The A5000, A4 laptop, A3010, A3020 and A4000 never saw the Archimedes logo, and the earlier ones could all be upgraded to RISC OS 3. So they changed to a logo that served all systems rather than a particular bit of hardware. The RPC class machines used the Acorn too.

It evolved from a flat green (RO3) to slightly shaded (3.5) to smoothly shaded (3.8). Much like the Windows and Apple logos have evolved a bit from version to version. It’s still recognisably the same logo.

The nonsense that has occurred since Acorn left the scene isn’t a good example for how to do things either, imho. It’s just in incomprehensible mess to anyone who hasn’t watched it develop (probably in horror) for the last decade.

I feel it would be best to fit in with this.

There’s no coherent pattern there to fit into.

There’s no coherent pattern there to fit into.

There is no exact fit. But there never will be. ROL have their own switcher icons.

The nearest thing to a pattern is that if the company who makes the hardware supplies the OS, it is a hardware based icon, if not it is an OS version based Icon. (If we ignore RO 5 on other than the Iyonix, which is fair, since that is the thing that would be changed).

It is a reasonable assumption that Castle wouldn’t really want Iyonixes reflashed with a different logo. If this is the case, then there is no possibility of a common icon, except the jelly bean, hence my suggestion.

How about an Oak leaf logo

This makes sense as the evolution of an acorn growing into a seedling.

Isn’t the green cog RISC OS Select/Adjust?

AIUI that’s a common misconception but isn’t the case. The cogwheel was designed as a generic logo for RISC OS. RO4 has the 3D cube (although uses the 4 cogwheels for Adjust IIRC, as you indicate) and RO6 uses the cog with a 6 in the centre. The cogwheel is used in the Iyonix filetype icons.

I think RISC OS needs a modern look by default. This would avoid the initial impression of an 80/90s system.

Yes. Always Innovating’s Gregoire Gentil has commented on the retro look (from screenshots).

Clarity

Looks clear and definitely more appropriate for a modern system. It’d be a great shame to completely abandon all the work done to create the RO5 icons for the Iyonix, but unfortunately they’re also now dated by definition – perhaps they could be given a facelift (maybe this has already been done in one of the themes).

PC manufacturers usually change the wallpaper, the windows logo is hard coded in.

That’s a good observation. It now seems to make more sense to me for the OS to have its own identity (with the possible exception of the Iyonix official ROM – unless Iyonix users would prefer to adopt a generic icon… whatever that may be). Perhaps some sort of online survey is in order.

The Archimedes ‘A’ switcher was definitely only RISC OS 2 only. I think it likely that in time Castle won’t care what switcher Iyonixes have and unless they revive the brand it will become less important that it has to have the bean switcher if that is not the case.

I would prefer to see an exclusive ROOL branding throughout to avoid confusion with the other fork of the os.

some sort of online survey

A starting point:¹

1. I use RISC OS most commonly under the following versions (order in terms of most to least frequently)
   • 2.x
   • 3.x
   • 4.0x
   • 4.39
   • 5.x (Iyonix shipped/official upgrade)
   • 5.x (Iyonix with ROOL development version)
   • 5.x (hobbyist board/netbook/UMPC² with ROOL development version)
   • 5.x (ARMini bundled)
   • 6.x
2. My main use of RISC OS is under emulation
   • No
   • Yes: VirtualAcorn/VirtualRPC (are they the same thing?)
   • Yes: RPCEmu
3. If not currently a user of 5.x, do you anticipate migrating by April 2012? (arbitrary date, in this case obviously based on the next Wakefield show, assuming there is one)
   • No, and not within the foreseeable future either
   • No, but maybe later in 2012/13, dependent on hardware
   • Yes, via emulation
   • Yes, via native hardware
4. What common identity do you feel future official RO5 releases³ should adopt? (include some neutral summary of points expressed here)
   • Iyonix blue jellybean, or modern adaptation
   • RO cogwheel, or modern adaptation
   • Retro acorn (new design, avoiding copyright issues)
   • Modern acorn (new design, avoiding copyright issues)
   • Retro Archimedes (possibly not copyrightable, as may not meet threshold of originality)
   • Retro Archimedes (new design)
   • Completely new logo⁴ (list sugestions, e.g. oak leaves + others… or leave open for comment?)
   • No common identity is needed: resellers can use an identity of their choice

¹ To avoid accusations of bias in order of multiple choice answers, do any easily configurable online surveys provide (pseudo-)random ordering of answers?

² Not sure all of target audience will understand the term UMPC but a short explanatory note could be included… just trying to cover Touch Book, Pandora and similar here.

³ IMHO development release logos are best decided by ROOL and those visiting the forum – this survey is concerned with the official releases. (But maybe others think that should be up for wider discussion too.)

⁴ If any new logo were to be released under a free license, then that would be one less hassle for potential resellers. It could then be easily used in websites, promotional material, packaging, etc. (Richard Hallas may be convinced to release the cogwheel under such terms, although my understanding is that he currently – and rightly – has concerns that doing so would permit abuse of such rights by unscrupulous people.)

(although uses the 4 cogwheels for Adjust IIRC, as you indicate)

Are you certain that the green cog wasn’t used as the Select switcher?

I also wish to point out that the switcher icon does not equal branding.

I think that the look “out of the box” should be uniform for a specific version of RISC OS, apart from the switcher. (Each version needs a nice Backdrop too.)

The alternative of how a Windows PC is, is horrible. The branding is done on the wallpaper, which gives a much less consistant starting point. (Though of course, replacing Teletubbieland was desirable.)

If RISC OS happened to take off, resellers would most likely want to brand their own version. Limiting it to the switcher icon is surely desirable?

It would be interesting to hear the viewpoint of RComp.

Are you certain that the green cog wasn’t used as the Select switcher?

Err, no.

the switcher icon does not equal branding.

True. I think I picked this up earlier on in the thread but missed it here. A reseller may wish to promote the OS as a whole (especially if also selling software/hardware to users of other RO systems) rather than brand the switcher as “their own”. Therefore a backdrop and splash screen seem more linked to resellers¹ than the switcher.

The alternative of how a Windows PC is, is horrible. The branding is done on the wallpaper

Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with that. (Sorry Jess, I’ve amended a couple of the footnotes since I first posted… you’re too quick!)

¹ Perhaps I’m getting a little ahead of myself here… I’m fully aware that there’s not exactly been a great deal of interest by hardware vendors in reselling RO – apart from the ARMini (R-Comp already operating in the RO market) the last one was probably Genesi in 2009.

Re different icons for different OS/hardware combinations: I’m against it for the reasons I’ve already stated.

> There’s no coherent pattern there to fit into.
There is no exact fit. But there never will be. ROL have their own switcher icons.

I think we can ignore ROL. Nothing we do or say here will affect them. Also their focus is on existing users of old machines. (RO6 only runs on the 17 year old RPC and emulated RPCs.) And those users are likely well aware of what’s happened to get us to the state we’re in.

ROOL RISC OS has more of a chance of being seen by people who are either new to the OS or haven’t encountered it since Acorn’s era.

The alternative of how a Windows PC is, is horrible. The branding is done on the wallpaper, which gives a much less consistant starting point. (Though of course, replacing Teletubbieland was desirable.)

I disagree. I think resellers plastering their branding over the backdrop is far more preferable to them plastering it over key functional OS components. Backdrops / wallpapers are trivially and routinely customised by users. I’ve not seen a platform with a desktop design that makes that difficult.

> The alternative of how a Windows PC is, is horrible. The branding is done on the wallpaper
Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with that.

But that then undoes the idea of everything looking the same.

My feeling is that it should be like Apple; One look for one OS. If resellers rebrand with Wallpaper, then it won’t. Branded switchers (which is reasonably consistent with the past) won’t break the general look.

FWIW, on the subject of the 2D cog my thoughts are:

1. I don’t like it aesthetically.
2. I don’t like the use of things with a giant hole in the middle for icons. (What happens if you click through the middle?)
3. Whether it was intended or not, the fact is it has become thoroughly associated with ROL’s Select and Select based releases.
4. The idea of a cog has no connection with the OS. (Same is true for a 3D cog.)

FWIW, on the subject of the 2D cog

FWIW, there are a few additional points from Richard Hallas in this summary of email exchanges I held with him earlier this year. It’s mainly concerning the aspect of licensing but a few other general points cropped up along the way. (And in case anyone’s wondering, I did clear with him at the time the publication of those extracts.)

My feeling is that it should be like Apple; One look for one OS. If resellers rebrand with Wallpaper, then it won’t. Branded switchers (which is reasonably consistent with the past) won’t break the general look.

I wouldn’t associate any particular backdrop with MacOS. Certainly nothing springs to mind when I think about it. The only general image I recall is that its always had a menubar at the top of the screen with the Apple logo on one side.

Just another opinion. I don’t mind the cog, but I’d prefer something completely new. I like the Oak leaf and also the suggestion of a new logo based on the old Arc ‘A’ logo, but with an ‘R’.

As for branding, I’d prefer a standard logo throughout all hardware. If a reseller wants to re-brand it, then surely that should be done within !Boot and not in the ROM?

The point about the 3D cog, for me at least, is that it tries to catch your attention and advertise the fact that it’s been designed in 3D. That’s great, in a turn of the century way but starts looking dated now. Which is why I replaced the Prince of Persia OS look with the Steel theme as well. OTOH the Oak leaf carries great symbolism, it’s green and unobtrusive: I like it.

The point about the 3D cog, for me at least, is that it tries to catch your attention and advertise the fact that it’s been designed in 3D. That’s great, in a turn of the century way but starts looking dated now.

All true. The only reason I prefer the 3D version of the cog aesthetically, is that I think the design of the 2D one looks ugly. (It is to me anyway.) The 3D one offends my sensibilities less.

Which is why I replaced the Prince of Persia OS look with the Steel theme as well.

Heh. I agree with that too. :) I use the Steel theme (or a tweaked version) myself. The textured windows/menus and the 3D window/menu border stuff RISC OS has by default looks really dated.

I should point out that the default appearance should not be designed to appeal to /us/ (we are quite capable of installing a new theme), but should appeal to those unfamiliar with the system. For example the school kids to whom the Raspberry Pi is aimed (another reason I would like to see a branded switcher by default, it would make it look more “official”.)

A retro archimedes appearance would not be good. (though as an installable theme, it would be good.

(For reference I’m using the waves of mud theme, with digital blasphemy’s cloudcanyon as backdrop.)

Given the popularity of Apple and drive towards more minimal UIs like Metro – simple, clean, not too 3D and certainly not heavily textured. A heavily textured desktop is like Artex on the ceiling – dated and icky. I know this is popular:

http://wii.smoothartist.com/riscos/mockup.png

…and its nice in its own way, but look at how busy it is – big 3D cog as well as the ROOL cog, 3D bevel on the RISC OS version plinth, the “fast and easily customised” tagline present when it’s probably unnecessary. If I were to start with that and modify it for minimalism, I’d take the whole of the bottom darker green area and empty it. Then I’d just put the RISC OS version number and Castle copyright message at some balanced location and font size within that region.

Since Michael has a small render of the green 3D cog, I’d be tempted to put that in instead of the ROOL rainbow cog (which is simply out of place in that splash screen) & I’d probably use it for the Switcher icon too.

Then there’s this:

https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums/2/topics/338

All good ideas. We just need refinements. But let’s avoid heavy colours, oppressive patterning and so-on; that’s just not a contemporary design approach IMHO.

If I were to start with that and modify it for minimalism, I’d take the whole of the bottom darker green area and empty it. Then I’d just put the RISC OS version number and Castle copyright message at some balanced location and font size within that region. Since Michael has a small render of the green 3D cog, I’d be tempted to put that in instead of the ROOL rainbow cog

I’ve just done a quick 2nd mockup with those changes:

I could change "Target: " to "Build: ", "Platform: ", or "For ". Or the heading could be removed so it just says the ROM type without preamble.

I also found an incomplete idea in the directory where I’d been working on that stuff:

http://wii.smoothartist.com/riscos/mockup-sonic.png

It was inspired by the bits between levels in the original Sonic games. :)

Taking the Sonic2 inspired design a little further along the same lines of minimalism gives:

or even:

Is there anything happening with the ROM branding? It would be nice to make some improvements before the Raspberry Pi version is out. :)

I went with in local ROMs here. I have zero graphics design skill, but the key features were

• Not machine specific
• No new code required
• Didn’t change the icon numbers (because the copyright text is autogenerated to avoid having to update the module once a year)