Textile tutorial

…but doesn’t give footnotes.

But doesn’t give hyperlinks, relative links, or in this case fragment identifiers, I think you mean!

Old-fashioned footnotes¹ merely appear at the bottom of the page!

¹ Here!

Which implies a need to scroll around to follow what is going on if the post is of any length, or simply not bother with reading footnotes ¹.

There’s a reason they’re all linked. It’s to enable narrative flow, to be able to pop down for additional details and then back up. Automatically. Without the need to scroll and relocate.

¹ Like this. And it helps to leave a space between the word and the [ 1 ] bit as it makes it look less like an odd typo.

if the post is of any length

I did note that such hyperlinks might be necessary in your multiple-screen posts (though brackets do exist for similar purposes!)!

Despite not yet being able to see it in NetSurf, I still think that convention demands that the footnote reference¹ should be firmly attached to its word, whilst the footnote reference number should have a trailing space! This is how it has always been done.

As Steve kindly pointed out, the problem arose because NetSurf seems to ignore the more complex form of <sup> tag, presenting it as something resembling a typo rather than a reference.

I have now made the suggested report to the NetSurf Mailing List (I hope), and we will see what, if anything, transpires!

¹ Like this!^2
2 This is not an internal hyperlink, merely a humble footnote!

It seems that you have access to NetSurf even though you do not use it for the ROOL forums.

Correct on both.
I tend to read the forums while sitting on the sofa and using a PC laptop (sadly the only RO laptop has too small a screen – this PC laptop barely cuts it)

I can test on the same machine using RPCEmu and NetSurf on that. The text size is a struggle and it isn’t particularly fast, so Firefox is the chosen method.

Old-fashioned footnotes1 merely appear at the bottom of the page!

That should be "Old-fashioned, non-active, printed page style, footnotes references merely appear at the bottom of the page!

As Rick says “There’s a reason they’re all linked. It’s to enable narrative flow, to be able to pop down for additional details and then back up. Automatically. Without the need to scroll and relocate.”

In a book (like a Pratchett novel) you’d mark the link launch point with one finger and move your gaze to the bottom of the page, read that and go back to your finger marked reference. The links (not random superscript) do that finger reference and the move down/up for you.

That’s what NetSurf should do.

@Alan, I think this bit:

 The </p> tag is inside a <td> </td> section

is unavoidable, since each post is delineated by the table tags

in a book (like a Pratchett novel)

Or a posting like a classic HeyRick one!

The links (not random superscript) do that finger reference and the move down/up for you.

My NetSurf doesn’t respond to the finger at all!

Of course – I didn’t get the Textile footnote-hyperlink bit, because NetSurf doesn’t display that bit of the Textile reference page correctly either!

But thank you for guiding me eventually to what is actually (not) happening in NetSurf!

Considering post lengths, with WhatsApp groups it’s best to do multiple short posts to allow “selective” quoting, as one can only “select” an entire post to quote – no just quoting the bit you want!

A disadvantage for those of us who grew up with e-mail clients!

Sorry – a bit off topic, but linked by the short-cuts for italic and bold!

But thank you for guiding me eventually to what is actually (not) happening in NetSurf!

BTW. My original post querying what you were trying to do produces this block of HTML below (hoping textile doesn’t have a fit):

<p>???</p>
<p>Are you trying to do linked footnote<sup class="footnote" id="fnr11605348310637719475">
<a href="#fn11605348310637719475">1</a>
</sup> tagging or superscript?<br />
The latter should be an <span class="caps">HTML</span> &lt; sup &gt; <sup> superscript text </sup> <sub>subscript text</sub>  &lt;&#8212; you can guess.</p>


<p>Edit: Basically, it accepts various <span class="caps">HTML</span> tags so obscure Textile stuff is often redundant.</p>
<p class="footnote" id="fn11605348310637719475">
<a href="#fnr11605348310637719475"><sup>1</sup></a>
<small>Linked footnote, click on the bit up there and you end up looking down here.</p>

I think that NetSurf just can’t cope with those footnote reference anchors.
Still not attempted that in Otter (which does seem to run in RPCEmu, although “run” may not be the best description)

I had to resubscribe to the NetSurf list and am awaiting my posting appearing.

With regard to Stuart’s helpful posting, I have now a shortcut (in my case a textfile¹) containing [^1^] which not only serves for the reference number, but also actually works for the footnote itself if you add the trailing space (as you would naturally).

¹ You could similarly use an “Insert text” App of your choice!

NB These are old-fashioned literary footnotes, not hyperlinks!

with WhatsApp groups

Walled garden.
Next…

Interestingly, hyperlinked footnotes seem to be working for me in NetSurf (albeit a bit slowly!)

Interestingly, hyperlinked footnotes seem to be working for me in NetSurf (albeit a bit slowly!)

Are you and John using the same version on the same OS version?

Are you and John using the same version on the same OS version?

No idea. I’m using NetSurf 3.9, RISCOS 5.23…presumably a zillion years out of date, but it’s working for everything I’ve felt the need to do…

I’ve just been looking at the questions of this site’s footnotes in general and NetSurf’s handling of footnotes in particular. I’ve posted a noddy test for a footnote in the Tests forum.

NetSurf seems to me to handle footnotes very well – I’m using 3.11 (Dev CI #5221), although footnotes seem to me to have worked properly for years. I’m surprised to see that the references are full URLs, not just the # bit. Presumably this causes NetSurf to reload the entire page, which would explain why there has been one mention of “albeit a bit slowly!”. I suspect that removing the bit before the hash would cause NS to treat it as being a reference to the current page and therefore not need to spend time reloading it.

Edit: Next experiment was to do a full save of my test posting, and observe that it does take a noticeable time to go from footnote reference to footnote and back again. Next I reduced the references (“href=…”) to just local significance by removing everything between the = and the #, save, and try again. This time the swap up and down appeared instantaneous.

So the speed problem is caused by the way the anchors are processed in the ROOL website. Whether that’s Textile or another stage following textile, I don’t know.

Edit again: The above paragraph is not true. See postings below.

I’m surprised to see that the references are full URLs, not just the # bit. Presumably this causes NetSurf to reload the entire page

Exactly so.

I’m surprised to see that the references are full URLs, not just the # bit.

NetSurf must be broken or something? I just looked at the topic created by Dave called “Footnotes” and his link is:

<sup class="footnote" id="fnr11605467387208330453">
<a href="#fn11605467387208330453">1</a></sup>

And the link back is:

<p class="footnote" id="fn11605467387208330453">
<a href="#fnr11605467387208330453"><sup>1</sup></a>

They aren’t full URLs, they’re just the fragment part.

I’ve also checked my post with the three footnotes. It’s the same, just the #fragment.

Rick: I’m sorry, I have been misled. Doing a full save from NetSurf saves the anchors as full URLs, but they are only local otherwise. So it’s NS’s full save that changes them.

with WhatsApp groups

Walled garden.
Next…

Needs the bleeding doorways bricking up as well…

Are you and John using the same version on the same OS version?

Latest Dev version:  5.29 (15-Nov-20)

WhatsApp groups can be useful. I’m a member of one that encompasses just a few neighbours. It’s the best way to have a neighbourly chat in these strange (estranged?) times.

WhatsApp groups can be useful. I’m a member of one that encompasses just a few neighbours. It’s the best way to have a neighbourly chat in these strange (estranged) times.

Perhaps we should start a new thread?

How about WhatsApp on Aldershot!

Rick: I’m sorry, I have been misled. Doing a full save from NetSurf saves the anchors as full URLs, but they are only local otherwise. So it’s NS’s full save that changes them.

I was misled (my-zulled) in exactly the same way. But why are the links slow? Sometimes…I now find they’re not always slow.

Needs the bleeding doorways bricking up as wel

Bleeding being the operative word there.

So, if John would care to carefully describe what should be rendered and what is actually rendered for the NetSurf developer(s) it may get fixed.

I have carefully prepared such a report, which you may find here – but, unfortunately, I am having difficulties re-subscribing to the list with a new e-mail address after TalkTalk discontinued my old one (blackmail/extortion attempt!).

Would anyone else like to take on the actual posting on my behalf, please?

To avoid unproductive multiple postings, please post here first and allow a short delay before proceeding!

Would anyone else like to take on the actual posting on my behalf, please?

So that’s no-one then?

I can’t subscribe to the list, so…

I can’t subscribe to the list, so…

Does this mean that subscription to the NetSurf User’s Mailing List is currently broken?

Where do we go from here?

But thank you for your “heads-up”!