Where do we discuss issues with Direct

In the absense of anywhere more formal, I will start the ball rolling here.

When using !Avalanche in the RiscOS Direct build, if full screen is entered there does not seem to be any way out (other than crash dive).

The Alt Gr Menu does not appear to work. The same version of !Avalanche works fine with 5.24 and recent 5.27 (and on a Pi4, as well).

It’s been mapped to ‘£’ in !Boot.

Look in Boot at PreDesk.KeyMapper.!Run and there’s a line that says KeyMap 96 29 – that is the culprit that maps Alt Gr. Either delete that line or comment it out and it should work as normal.

That said, I didn’t know that Alt Gr did that in !Avalanche, so thanks for the accidental tip!

Thanks AndyM, I was interested in the answer to that issue.

OK. There is a fix for that one.

Issue 2 is that I have fixed addresses on my network and this Pi3B+Direct is set with a fixed address.

But, at boot time I see a message saying that the system is contacting a DHCP Server and then an error splash about a route already existing.

And then with no further addo, here I am using !RDPClient to make this post on the forum. What were all the eroneous messages about?

Please do not waste too much time looking for an answer. I do not need one.

Issue 2 is more of an annoyance, than a bug. So, we move on to issue 3.

There is an icon on the desktop called !Otter-brow. If I double click on it, the system hangs.

No. I don’t want an answer to that one either.

Did anybody test this lot? Have I made my point? None of us should waste any more time on this.

I am going back to my nice new useful Pi4.

Bizarrely, it hasn’t crashed! It’s just EXCEPTIONALLY slow to load. I just tried it with Direct on a Pi 4 and first run took a good couple of minutes or so for the browser window to appear. The second run was quite a bit quicker.

Oops, wait, you said you didn’t want to know! 😀

But, at boot time I see a message saying that the system is contacting a DHCP Server and then an error splash about a route already existing.

I think RISC OS is typically set up to try to contact a DHCP server so it should “magically” connect to most networks.
I reconfigured my networking to use static IP because it’s faster (no waiting for DHCP) and most importantly it always works. This is important when the Pi takes about 10 seconds to boot, and the router takes several minutes. If coming back from a powercut or brownout, the Pi would lose all connectivity if it relied upon DHCP as it would have thrown in the towel and given up long before the router is up and running. With static IP, it just waits patiently for the router to catch up. ;-)

If I double click on it, the system hangs. […] It’s just EXCEPTIONALLY slow to load.

It hasn’t crashed. Upon first run, it scans your fonts to know what’s available, and where it might find characters such as ones you might encounter in GRΣΣΚ, ЯЦЅЅІДИ, אebrew, or even にほんご.
Unfortunately, Otter takes forever to do this scanning.
Hint for the next version of Direct – run Otter and copy the lookup data into the image so this’ll only happen again if the user adds fonts… [and perhaps see about finding a way to let the user know “it hasn’t crashed, it’s just slow”]

I thought !Otter had crashed as well—perhaps it’s time to go back to the era of splash screens. And does it do this again if the list of fonts available changes? Of course it does.

At least I know now where the key mapping happens, for the version which comes with the new RPCEmu bundle.

John S – thankyou for taking the time to try RISC OS Direct, we appreciate your feedback. We hope to make revisions to the first release in due course, and will naturally bear your comments in mind.

Although answers have been given already, to summarise:

1) Your Avalanche problem stems from Keymapper which was erroniously included in !Boot.Choices.Boot.PreDesk from testing with US keyboards etc. You can safely delete the “Keymapper” folder there.

2) You took the time/technicality to modify things static IPs, but missed the program named “!ReDHCP” that’s loaded in Boot configuration. Click the “Boot” configuration option, then “Run at Startup” and remove the offending program, which, as its name implies, is meant for DHCP use. Configuring startup is, I think, covered in video 2 of the series.

3) !Otter was included at the last minute since brand new browsers were not available/ready. Patience, as they say, is a virtue, and Otter requires a fair bit of it! Good for the soul…? Probably not! Future versions will hopefully include better offerings such as !OBrowser (which has a startup banner) or !Iris.

Finally, whilst I appreciate that you are, to some degree, being funny and “trolling” for effect/to make some sort of point, I’d like to remind everyone that attitudes/sarcasm/negativism reflect badly on the RISC OS community as a whole. Please try hard to make these forums a friendly place, so that new users can feel welcomed and encouraged. This isn’t a “fake” problem, but something that has resulted in people turning away. When you make a post, please pause and think “would I like it if this post were about me?”.

Keymapper which was erroniously included

Keymapper is a useful thing to have included, although probably without any pre-defined settings! What it really needs is an easy to use configuration GUI. I think a Wish List posting is in order…

I’m assuming the next version of ReDHCP will shut itself down if DHCP is not in use?

I would like to support John S in reporting niggles with RISC OS Direct. Our collective objective must be to make distros of RISC OS as effective as we know how, particularly in the target market of RISC OS Direct, and so I would appreciate knowing from Andrew what feedback method he would prefer. Personal emails to him can be useful, but so too can some healthy discussion where all sorts of good ideas can emerge.

I am assuming, of course, that it is planned to improve the freely downloadable distro over time, and that there will be some marketing of it. The Wi-Fi Sheep videos on YouTube (which, by the way, are shaping up nicely) are a good start on advertising the distro.

In playing with the first edition of RISC OS Direct (17-Feb-2020), I have come up with quite a few queries and suggestions, but am now wary of airing them in the wrong place.

I would like to support John S in reporting niggles with RISC OS Direct. Our collective objective must be to make distros of RISC OS as effective as we know how, particularly in the target market of RISC OS Direct, and so I would appreciate knowing from Andrew what feedback method he would prefer. Personal emails to him can be useful, but so too can some healthy discussion where all sorts of good ideas can emerge.

Unless we wish to subdivide an already divided platform further, I’d suggest here (but perhaps not in the bugs forum). RISC OS Direct is, as ROD keep telling us, just RISC OS 5. Let’s keep the discussion in one place, and public, please.

If you wish to use this thread, that’s fine – just please keep it polite and civil (rather than a mud slinging exercise), so that it can be used as a reference when it comes to updating things. If someone would like to volunteer to keep a log/list or otherwise manage the feedback it would be helpful.

Please remember that I did not assemble Direct, but it is possible I may be more hands-on in an update – time permitting. Both Richard and I have a lot on our plates, and whilst we’re committed to improving and supporting Direct, community assistance would be mighty helpful. I should stress that Direct is non-profit, with the objective of the exercise being to introduce new people to RISC OS and build the userbase.

I would like to support John S in reporting niggles with RISC OS Direct.

Thank you, Bernard.

but missed the program named “!ReDHCP”

No. I did see it, but it would be better with some help files. Or, perhaps better still, instead, a pointer or two to the long established Network Configuration options.

I have to admit to not looking at any of the videos.
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I still think the name ‘Direct’ implies something different and the new blue switcher icon etc. confirms that impression.

I still think the name ‘Direct’ implies something different and the new blue switcher icon etc. confirms that impression.

Is this blue switcher icon different to that used on the ARMX6?

I still think the name ‘Direct’ implies something different and the new blue switcher icon etc. confirms that impression.

Wasn’t it an Iyonix dot on the OMAP3 build? Then did it change to a green cog? I’m sure I’ve seen that. The Pi? It’s a Raspberry…Pi…duh. And now with Direct it’s what, the blue arrow?

Hmm. There’s a part of me that wants to patch all of this to a blue/yellow/red ‘A’ like it was in the beginning. You know, was once and forever shall be, A without end, amen.

Is this blue switcher icon different to that used on the ARMX6?

I don’t know the answer to that, but it is certainly different to one I have on my Pi 5.24 (and 5.27). Direct is advertised as “For Raspberry Pi”.

As long as it doesn’t have green directory folders!

Wasn’t it an Iyonix dot on the OMAP3 build? Then did it change to a green cog? I’m sure I’ve seen that. The Pi? It’s a Raspberry…Pi…duh.

It’s an Iyonix dot on the Iyo, a Raspberry on the Pi, and the ROOL multicoloured cog on everything else that I’ve seen apart from the manufacturer-specific builds (eg. R-Comp have machine-specific logos, usually).

Of course, it’s worth noting that one can make the switcher icon be whatever one wants by merely defining a sprite called switcher and/or taskmanager and iconsprite-ing it!

The latter currently changes the icon on RPi. Someone’s changed its name.

Look at:

I think some round here are missing the whole point of RISCOS Direct. a) Direct is NOT a fork of the OS. b) Its simply a branded theme to help promote RISC OS to NEW users. c) its still RISC OS 5.27 behind the branding. d) Its comes supplied with a whole load of free software to save the NEW user having to hunt for it all, includes a load of programming tools, etc.. e) Its being or at least it was before Covid-19 aimed at users at Raspberry Jams, who will mainly be using Linux Raspbian, and are used to package managers and lots of as standard extras, so they have everything installed immediately.

So the OS is no different underneath just has a different Theme to help promote the product. So what we should be discussing is the software being provided and what can be improved on that side of things, are there obmissions or better versions of the software being provided as standard.

Some one mentioned Otter_brow, this is the version without the RISC OS front end as supplied by ROD, I think it would have been better to supply the OBrowser version with the frontend and banner until Iris is available.

Maybe it should include a PDF copy of the User Guide as well, and any manuals available for programmers.

So lets provide some practical support for this project to encourage NEW users, which we badly need.

I think it would have been better to supply the OBrowser version with the frontend and banner until Iris is available.

I definitively vote for a zip of an up to date Otter + libraries (+ QupZilla? Seems a bit faster here than Otter) + OBrowser.
Nota: the libs could be in the Otter directory (as with Iris/OWB), since (almost) no other software will use them.

So lets provide some practical support for this project to encourage NEW users, which we badly need.

…Instead of arguing about cosmetics…

just has a different Theme

That’s it. It’s just a theme. Nothing to do with forking.

For a suggestion – easy. Make the Otter font cache file first and include that in the SD image. That way Otter starts up slowly rather than giving the impression of having crashed and taken the system down with it. If possible tweak Otter so it shows an hourglass with percentage. UI feedback is important – it’s how the user knows that something is happening.

The User Guide is a must as well, given that RISC OS’ behaviour is different enough to warrant some explanation.

My mother tried RISC OS (a while back when she was alive…) and she knew there were menus because she’s seen me doing it, but on her own she wasn’t able to find them. I’m not sure she realised that the scroll wheel was a button that actually did something.
Accessing applications is heavy based on the filesystem, while other platforms are increasingly hiding the filesystem from users (the most extreme example being iOS where the filesystem doesn’t exist at all as far as the user is concerned).

while other platforms are increasingly hiding the filesystem from users

Just because other systems are doing stupid things does not mean we should follow suit.

Accessing applications is heavy based on the filesystem, while other platforms are increasingly hiding the filesystem from users (the most extreme example being iOS where the filesystem doesn’t exist at all as far as the user is concerned).

I know Rick you use a old version of iOS which is well out of date and your information is also very dated. both iOS12 and iOS 13 give more access to the file system, admitted not lots but enough, indeed the even newer iPad OS gives even more (I have iOS12 currently). Lets not knock other systems when you do not have up todate version.