learn programming??? attract new users.

Here is one for you…

In days gone by we learned by buying Acorn user and typing in projects and so on to do different things from a game to a small utility or program. Over time obviously gaining and increasing knowledge of the computer and language.

But what do we do now???? It’s maybe nice to attract new people to try Risc OS with Raspberry PI or emulators but i am willing to bet most are doing it for a wee look or a bit of retro blast from days gone by and aren’t programmers.

What does this mean. We’ll probably less and less developers every year creating or maintaining software. And of course with no software there won’t be new users.

Part of Rpi charm is the diy ability to make things say from some led light show to home automation to…. Sky is the limit.

Tbh risc os with it’s fonts and ability to work well on lower res smaller screens would be great for a lot of these diy projects. It would be great to see some info on using and accessing the diy type hardware and almost a series of articles where you can make or buy and add on and actually program to run it and a wimp interface to control it.

Be nice to see similar resources/articles even if scanned from old magazines etc that new users can work their way through and start to build a knowledge of programming on risc os.

Is there anythjng like that avail? I’d love to try a diy thermostat with Rpi a small screen and relay etc to control the heating. First program a basic interface to control it.. Then maybe add more features in each article/stage. Maybe incorporating ability to control from web. Then maybe add ability to grab some weather info like temp, wind speed, wind chill and build it into how heating is controlled. Lastly maybe program a learning feature that compares thermostat/house temp with the weather info its been storing and allow it to learn what to adjust when.

Ok thermostat idea was just off top of head as an interesting and useful project that can start with basic interface and work up to more complicated and be a worth while project. You could even take it further to add temp sensors in other parts of house and even with a motorized valve even zone the house. Add lights and other bits to even build into smart home controller. I think potential and diy interest in this area would be good and if done over time a great project to follow and learn for lots of us.

Could get some more articles on computer/tech/rpi sites as well.

However even just access to some old magazine programming articles that built week by week i reckon would be invaluable. I know i can learn as taught myself sas/sql and spotted so many mistakes in code others had written i know i could get up to speed but tbh kinda need an interesting series of projects that builds me up to keep interest going :)

Any ideas of what we could do and/or anything out there already that fills my needs?

Drag N’ Drop?
http://www.dragdrop.co.uk/

I’ll be getting it because i have more of a historic interest and used risc os in past.

However, people wanting to give it a go cos they got a pi are less likely to buy a magazine so a useful diy electronic and programming article that builds something really useful and teaches some of the programming in a series of lessons with step by step guides i reckon would be an excellent thing to have.

A single project cos i feel that sort of diy project and programming is still a really brilliant use for risc OS. Like i say a release saying what’s planned and what’s needed hardware wise and component wise so people can get bits to follow along with it.

Was just a thought of something to attract people to not only look but actually get their hands into a practical project.

Maybe even say make articles in conjunction with drag n’ drop but make them free up to 1st stage of basic working thermostat with the rest in magazine (once article is finished or for each stage a small paid download could be made avail for the whole article so even down line if someone wants to follow it they don’t need to find old magazines).

Ps ordered the USB key with all issues ;)

Be grabbing the rool sd with Rpi risc OS and software too as looks like some damn handy stuff on it :)

To be honest, you need to truly ask what RO offers. Raspian offers better options for programming/tinkering/automation/IO. A lot of RO5 solutions are a bit of a bodge trying to bring a 20th century OS into the 21st century kicking and screaming.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not much of a fan of Linux, and RO5 is probably my favourite OS even though I don’t have the history/nostalgia most of you do but I cant recommend RO5, as I can think of many cheaper/better supported options.

To me, I love RO5 for it’s historical relevance and charm, but I cant recommend solely based on charm.

Of the two Rpi3s on my desk one runs Raspbian (Stretch) the other RISC OS (5.23). I have to use the first for browsing (Chrome) because NetSurf, nice though it is, does not let me do many of the things I need to do. But for email, and for programming, for constructing web sites, I prefer to use RISC OS.

I suspect that few RISC OS users appreciate what a useful tool StrongED can be for learning programming – not with BASIC but with more modern scripting languages. OK, not necessarily for graphics or wimp programs, but for text-handling and data-extraction. The run-debug cycle is so simple. Drag the script’s icon onto the Apply icon of the StrongED window containing the text to be manipulated, and see the result immediately. If it is not correct, edit the script, in its StrongED window, and try again. Scripts are usually very short, and the learner gets almost instant feedback on their efforts. This is a good way to learn about pattern-matching and output-formatting, two fundamental areas in which BASIC is regrettably inadequate.

Zap – for C, a simple ShCtrlC will save the current file and toss the MakeFile at AMU. Couldn’t be easier to build.

For BASIC, there’s an optional button bar that can make Save & Run be a single click. Simple!

;-)

And, of course, sane and highly configurable colorisation to make things stand out.

Both editors are extremely useful…

Risc OS ain’t changed much since school days and tbh the on board programming for people making diy projects was superb. And as the guy who did the gps work showed you can hook into that part of the Pi.

So i say again some form of series that you make a basic project (like a thermostat) and then program up the interface and step by step add more interesting things to the control program is ideal. And if we want new users its only thing i can see thay we should be looking at, making work and pushing as our bread and butter perfect use.

It’s just as a good a hobbiest diy, electronics os as it always has been and now we have a standardised computer to run it on that’s cheap and has lots of diy electronic add on stuff and plenty of i/o pins we can use and hook into from os then thay side of it should be pushed, laid bare and given some articles to get this type of project started for people like me.

What else we gonna attract people with??? I can’t see another way that won’t make it just a check it out and have a play novelty. You hook some of diy hobby market and they will start to see what else you can do with risc os. More users means even potential sales of some useful software.

Also lots of school teachers still about who know riac os, basic etc inside out and I’ll bet schools have PI’s so again getting people in those areas to sew the potential of learning in electronics/computer projects would also be good.

Again what else could bring people in that may stay? Cos i actually can’t think of another potential great use that could do that. This is probs only one.

If i have to try and do it myself I will but seriously think the programming is gonna let me down massively. So would rather be person following an article like this. Thermostat and automation is new and relevant and yes there are off shelf solutions but diy electronics enthusiasts may enjoy a totally diy approach. Isn’t it a big reason BBC b did so well could do all these projects/electronics and easy to program it?

If there is another potential use tat can bring people in and i’m wrong then i am all ears but canny see one.

John

Gonna get a 2nd pi, case and screen i can use and the relay etc i need to control a boiler… Least i can do that part of it and see where it takes me

Alas, the diy projects and the soldering iron are not for me. Whether natural clumsiness, lack of the right toys in childhood, or being born too soon, who can say? What has always fascinated me have been the theoretical things: type theories, how abstract ideas are represented, how programming languages are implemented, the history and people involved. These are as miraculous as the speed and miniaturization of electronic devices. The software cannot be realized without the hardware, the hardware is pointless without the software. By software I mean not simply code but people and ideas.

The thermostat and relay part actually looks prety simple. The interesting bit will be the programming i guess and the trying to add features like picking up temp, wind speed and direction and getting to make correction factors over time or adjust in/off temps depending on time of day and outside conditions…

Here is a wee article showing a basic gpio breadboard circuit that has both temp and light sensors.

So just need to figure out how to get access to the info from gpio in risc OS.

http://projects-raspberry.com/raspberry-pi-temperature-and-light-sensor/

Looks like we have gpio support in risc os too https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=22250

Oh well looks like gonna get myself in a muddle then 😂😂😂

Hi John, I’d be pleased if you get the DS18B20 temp sensor working. The subject’s cropped up on the forum a few times but no-one’s posted any working code that reads data from it via RISC OS yet.

Don’t hold your breath my knowledge is school and a long time ago but gonna look about and see what i can find about sensor or alternative sensors ;)

Seems like a great use for risc OS though so getting some useful sensors would be rather good.

There’s lots of examples for reading from a MCP9801 sensor. But none for implementing 1-wire via UART, which is what you’d need to do to read from a DS18B20 sensor.

Seen a guy use a usb device and soldered the sensor on to access its data so maybe that will give us a clue as assume it was serial of some sort he grabbed its data from… Will grab link see if useful ;)

Only other way that may work for us is a small i2c 1-wire bus master so we csn communicate with sensor via i2c instead??? Apparently 1wire timing can be quite tricky though imagine that app for the weather station guy developed should be able to read any 1-wire data.

that app for the weather station guy developed should be able to read any 1-wire data.

Which weather station guy? ;-)

Mine, thankfully, uses a weird but simple serial protocol. I don’t think I’d consider a weather station that wasn’t a, documented somewhere and b, not a pain in the ass to interface with. I’ve just about had my fill of stupid proprietary rubbish…
https://www.heyrick.co.uk/blog/index.php?diary=20160402

Mikko. Is this any use? It’s talking about using UART to communicate with 1-wire and actually sounds like a reasonable way to do it. Not totally clear how it handles more than one device or anything yet but worth a read. https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/app-notes/index.mvp/id/214

There is also some win32 and posix C code in here that uses the uart to read the 1wire data it looks like runs each baud till it gets.a.good result then reads the data back in.

Think we could grab enough info out this code to see what its asking the uart to do and what its doing with the returned data.

https://github.com/dword1511/onewire-over-uart?files=1

Why pull source code apart when there’s an easier to read tutorial?

https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/app-notes/index.mvp/id/214 – yes, the same one you found. I’d rather understand what’s going on before looking at source. ;-)

Try also https://hackaday.com/2015/01/29/easier-uart-to-1-wire-interface/