Raspberry Pi 4

but there’s still no cursor.

What is the monitor screen size?

I did not see the pointer at all initially. The RPi4 was running at 1920×1080 into a 2560×1440 monitor. Setting the RPi4 output video to 2560×1440 in config/txt got the pointer to show at that resolution and putting disable_mode_changes into cmdline/txt enabled the pointer in smaller modes. I think this may mean it necessary to force a software pointer.

I have not tried to run the RPi4 with my other monitor which is 1920×1200, I suspect that would turn out to be pointerless. The determining number would be a width of 2048.

That cracked it! Luckily my monitor is also 2560×1440, so I set the settings for that in config/txt and, as you suggested, the mouse pointer magically appeared, albeing very flickery!

As you also suggested, it is quite slow over VNC.

Thanks David, happily playing now. Just waiting for USB3…

And I have to say, given that the new stuff we need to make it work independently isn’t there yet, it seems very stable as it stands. One thing I’ve discovered is I always have to load !Iris twice. The first time it will crash when I try to open a window, but the second time it works fine.

And I have to say, given that the new stuff we need to make it work independently isn’t there yet, it seems very stable as it stands.

I have an idea. If we can get RISC OS working on the Pi 4 without USB and without Internet (so no keyboard, no mouse, no SCSI but a full desktop and SDFS) there seems no reason why the USB driver could not be loaded from the HardDisc boot. That would mean that the USB 3 driver could be GPL code without contaminating the rom. Presumably the code for Linux to drive USB is GPL?

The USB power plug could alternatively be pressed into service (and power provided through the header) as that uses a USB chip familiar to RISC OS.

The USB power plug could alternatively be pressed into service (and power provided through the header) as that uses a USB chip familiar to RISC OS.

Bizarrely, I bought an On-Off SHIM from Pimoroni earlier in the week for just this purpose. The hub on the USB-C port is recognised as a Synopsys DWC OTG root hub by USBInfo:

vendor_id = 0000
product_id = 0000
vendor_name = RISC OS
product_name = System root HUB
class = 9_0_0
usbinfo = 0.86 (21 Dec 2017)
Bus 1
Address 1
Endpoints 1

But it doesn’t recognise anything plugged into the USB-C port, not even things that otherwise work on RISC OS.

But it doesn’t recognise anything plugged into the USB-C port, not even things that otherwise work on RISC OS.

Does the board actually have any connections from the USB-C socket for anything other than power?

But it doesn’t recognise anything plugged into the USB-C port

Might it have something to do with the USB-C wiring error referenced by Frederick Bambrough and Gavin Wraith earlier in this thread?

I have an idea. If we can get RISC OS working on the Pi 4 without USB and without Internet (so no keyboard, no mouse, no SCSI but a full desktop and SDFS) there seems no reason why the USB driver could not be loaded from the HardDisc boot. That would mean that the USB 3 driver could be GPL code without contaminating the rom. Presumably the code for Linux to drive USB is GPL?

Is there a GPL-licensed RISC OS USB 3 stack hiding in the shadows?! OK, I suspect that’s not quite what you’re implying. :). Is the idea that someone could read the Linux code, update the RISC OS USB stack (now GPL tainted), but it’s OK, because it can be loaded by Boot?

If anyone is sitting around who understands the Pi4 hardware and the RISC OS USB stack enough to attempt this work, then please do shout up, and I’m sure some of us could write down a description of what the Linux code DOES. They could copy that idea, and hey presto, GPL all forgotten.

Last time this was discussed, were the community not waiting for the Pi Foundation to release information? I suspect this is still the case, since NetBSD still doesn’t work on the Pi4. And NetBSD will have an abundance of developers compared to RISC OS. Is anyone aware of a functional USB and Ethernet implementation for the Pi4 which is not sitting on top of Linux?

Is there any way someone could use the uboot source to see how it works or is this not feasible ??

Does the board actually have any connections from the USB-C socket for anything other than power?

According to the Raspberry Pi 4 schematic the USB2 differential pair (UUSB_D_P and UUSB_D_N on the diagram) are wired up, so could (in theory) be functional.

Just a little insight into the differing USB arrangements of the RPi3B+ and RPi4.

RPi3B+

pi@raspberrypi16:~ $ lspci
pcilib: Cannot open /proc/bus/pci
lspci: Cannot find any working access method.
pi@raspberrypi16:~ $ lsusb
Bus 001 Device 006: ID 13fd:0840 Initio Corporation INIC-1618L SATA
Bus 001 Device 004: ID 062a:4101 MosArt Semiconductor Corp. Wireless Keyboard/Mouse
Bus 001 Device 005: ID 0424:7800 Standard Microsystems Corp. 
Bus 001 Device 003: ID 0424:2514 Standard Microsystems Corp. USB 2.0 Hub
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 0424:2514 Standard Microsystems Corp. USB 2.0 Hub
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
pi@raspberrypi16:~ $ lsusb -t
/:  Bus 01.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=dwc_otg/1p, 480M
    |__ Port 1: Dev 2, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 480M
        |__ Port 1: Dev 3, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/3p, 480M
            |__ Port 2: Dev 4, If 1, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbhid, 12M
            |__ Port 2: Dev 4, If 0, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbhid, 12M
            |__ Port 1: Dev 5, If 0, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=lan78xx, 480M
        |__ Port 3: Dev 6, If 0, Class=Mass Storage, Driver=usb-storage, 480M
pi@raspberrypi16:~ $ 

RPi4

pi@raspberrypi16:~ $ lspci
00:00.0 PCI bridge: Broadcom Limited Device 2711 (rev 10)
01:00.0 USB controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VL805 USB 3.0 Host Controller (rev 01)
pi@raspberrypi16:~ $ lsusb
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 2109:3431 VIA Labs, Inc. Hub
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
pi@raspberrypi16:~ $ lsusb -t
/:  Bus 03.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=dwc2/1p, 480M
/:  Bus 02.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci_hcd/4p, 5000M
/:  Bus 01.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci_hcd/1p, 480M
    |__ Port 1: Dev 2, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 480M
pi@raspberrypi16:~ $ 

So, completely different then.

RISC OS can see the VL805 but that is all.

And now with mouse pointer and sound.

Brilliant.

Thanks very much.

So does that mean that USB is now working on the RPi4, to a first approximation?

So does that mean that USB is now working on the RPi4, to a first approximation?

XHCIDriver is able to detect the new USB controller, but there are still some configuration issues / software bugs which are preventing it from working.

So does that mean that USB is now working on the RPi4, to a first approximation?

The OTG port now works! Which means keyboard, mouse and USB network apapters are working on Rpi4.

*usbdevices
No. Bus Dev Class Description
1 1 1 9/ 0 Synopsys DWC OTG root hub
2 1 2 9/ 0 VIA Labs, Inc. USB2.0 Hub
3 1 3 9/ 0 Terminus Technology USB 2.0 Hub
4 1 4 11/ 0 VIA Technologies Inc. USB 2.0 BILLBOARD
5 1 5 0/ 0 USB Storage USB Storage
6 1 6 9/ 0 NEC Product ID 0050
7 1 7 0/ 0 MCT USB PS/2 Keyboard – PS/2 Mouse
8 1 8 FF/FF ADMtek USB To LAN Converter
12 1 12 0/ 0 Prolific Technology PL2303 Serial adapter (ATEN/IOGEAR UC232A)
13 1 13 0/ 0 Realtek USB 10/100/1000 LAN
14 1 14 11/ 0 VIA Labs, Inc. USB Billboard Device
16 1 9 9/ 0 Genesys Logic USB2.0 Hub
17 1 10 0/ 0 Logitech USB Optical Mouse
18 1 11 0/ 0 VIA Technologies Inc. USB Audio Device
19 1 15 0/ 0 SEM USB Keyboard
*

How do you power the pi if you are using the usb c port for usb?

How do you power the pi if you are using the usb c port for usb?

I’m using a USB C hub with power passthrough.

Do you know if there are any compatability issues with hubs? This hub looks suitable to me. Any thoughts?

Do you know if there are any compatability issues with hubs? This hub looks suitable to me. Any thoughts?

The only issue I had was that after plugging the hub into the USB C port on the RPi4 the Pi failed to power up. But after slowly pulling the lead out of the socket at a certain point the Pi powers up.

How do I create or obtain the correct rom please (given that my efforts so far have been fruitless)? I have a Pi 4, will get a power pass through USB C hub (dely tomorrow), want to have it on the stand at the SW show.

Is the Pi 4 rom intelligent enough to be backwards compatible with earlier models?

How do I create or obtain the correct rom please?

I would be very interested in trying to get that working as well. The Pi 4 is eagerly awaiting

This hub looks suitable to me. Any thoughts?

Any answer to that question would be useful before I order one.

Any answer to that question would be useful before I order one.

I’ll let you know…

I’ll let you know…

Many Thanks. I look forward to that.

…and USB network apapters are working

The same post mentions ADMtek USB To LAN Converter and Realtek USB 10/100/1000 LAN adappters. A heads up on a particular working device would be good. or do we still have to use a wi-fi HAT (in which case which is the favorite?)

Good Luck with your attendance at the SW Show. Regrettably, the show is still a long way south from here.

Regrettably, the show is still a long way south from here.

It has been moved north by about 30 minutes (car) or much more than that (public transport).

It has been moved north by about 30 minutes

It is still well over 2 degrees away. (and a bit to the west as well).