Vertalen?

Correct. And Google Translate is really good now, even for evaluation of cultural differences.
But that’s not the same :) French, German or Dutch people have also discussions linked to their local country/clubs/development.

In the Netherlands it is mandatory to provide a manual in Dutch for a large number of products offered here. I think that is a European rule that applies to every country where a product is offered from another country. Someone who is smart doesn’t need that rule of course, because if you focus as much as possible on a target group “selling” you more.

Are there any RISC OS users willing to help translate software into other languages? That’s a genuine question: there’s no money in free software to pay people so it would have to be volunteers, but previous enquiries have always been met with silence.

Translating RISC OS software is, as far as it goes, largely non-technical. You have a collection of text files to edit, often in some obvious markup format, and the most fiddly thing is using a template editor to translate the window templates. I suspect that it could be done by those who don’t consider themselves developers.

DeepL thinks this is what I said; I’ll have to trust it…

Zijn er gebruikers van RISC OS die bereid zijn te helpen bij het vertalen van software in andere talen? Dat is een echte vraag: er zit geen geld in vrije software om mensen te betalen, dus het zou vrijwilligers moeten zijn, maar eerdere vragen zijn altijd met stilte beantwoord.

Het vertalen van RISC OS software is, voor zover het gaat, grotendeels niet-technisch. Je hebt een verzameling tekstbestanden om te bewerken, vaak in een voor de hand liggend opmaakformaat, en het meest vervelende is het gebruik van een sjabloon-editor om de venstertemplates te vertalen. Ik vermoed dat het zou kunnen worden gedaan door degenen die zichzelf niet beschouwen als ontwikkelaars.

even for evualation of cultural differences

Many years ago while stationed in Germany near the Dutch border we often watched UK programs broadcast by the Dutch TV services. They broadcast the programs in English with Dutch subtitles. One program was the “Some Mothers Do Have ’em” sitcom. In one particular episode Frank was stopped by the police for speeding and asked “Where do you think you are, Brands Hatch?”, which was duly subtitled as “Waar denk je dat je bent, Zandvoort?”, changing the reference from a UK racing circuit to a Dutch one. I learned to read Dutch reasonably well (rusty now though) in that period. German TV always dubbed English language programs/films.

Translating RISC OS software is, as far as it goes, largely non-technical…

… which doesn’t mean that it is easy. A chunk of text, or even a single line may be clear enough to translate properly. But when it comes to a single word, for example as in Messages files, it can become quite tricky. A word can have two or more completely different meanings. E.g. if a Messages file contains the word turn, and you don’t know where it occurs in the program, you cannot know which translation is the proper one. Even worse, if turn is used in more than one context, both as a verb and as a noun, it will even be impossible to translate it properly. The same is true for Messages lines that contain %-references, or lines that are combined to one big line: the word order will almost always be wrong in translation. And there’s no way to avoid that.
Plain documentation, however, is certainly doable – and always very welcome!

bq.
German TV always dubbed English language programs/films.
bq.

I remember watching an episode of Star Trek dubbed in German with Greek subtitles!

I would echo Steve’s request – any willing volunteers for translation? Back in the day we paid for a translation of PipeDream 3 – program, examples and printed documentation – to German and we were commissioned to do a translation to Swedish. Fireworkz had a full German translation and a variant of the PC version also had French. Neither of those Fireworkz translations can be reused due to external copyrights, but I have a fresh German translation on the go and French may appear at some point.

Many years ago while stationed in Germany near the Dutch border we often watched UK programs broadcast by the Dutch TV services. They broadcast the programs in English with Dutch subtitles.

Ah, blessed memories! We used to do the same when I was at Laarbruch in the mid ’70s. We used to watch Monty Python in English with Dutch sub-titles. Almost as hilarious was Kojack with German sub-titles.

French may appear at some point.

Good summary. It will, but when? :)

… which doesn’t mean that it is easy.

If it was, developers would be doing it themselves! :-)

A chunk of text, or even a single line may be clear enough to translate properly. But when it comes to a single word, for example as in Messages files, it can become quite tricky. A word can have two or more completely different meanings. E.g. if a Messages file contains the word turn, and you don’t know where it occurs in the program, you cannot know which translation is the proper one.

I don’t think I’m expecting to throw the files at someone and then leave them to get on with it: I’m fairly sure that the process will involve input from the developer to get right.

My point is that if there’s anyone who thinks that they would like to help with this kind of thing, many developers are likely to be happy to give assistance. Pretty much all of my stuff is capable of being translated, but I don’t have the skill-set to do it myself. Sorry. :-(

Even worse, if turn is used in more than one context, both as a verb and as a noun, it will even be impossible to translate it properly. The same is true for Messages lines that contain %-references, or lines that are combined to one big line: the word order will almost always be wrong in translation. And there’s no way to avoid that.

Software changes might be required, of course. I don’t seem to use %-references much, unless they’re including something from another source (eg. a filename, or an OS error), partly because they’re still hard to get correct even in one language.

Plain documentation, however, is certainly doable – and always very welcome!

Indeed.

Rick,

Alsof je Nederlander bent ;-)

Rick,

Sorry, in de vorige tekst maakte ik een fout. Hier komt hij nog een keer.
Alsof je Nederlander bent ;-)

Rick,

I didn’t make a mistake, but in someway yhe program did.
So, now I try in Englisch. I wrote: “If you are Dutch. ;-)”.

So, now I try in Englisch. I wrote: “If you are Dutch. ;-)”.

I think that should be: As if you were Dutch.
Interlingual communication is tricky, even with translation software.
Actually, communication is tricky.

Actually, communication is tricky.

And Dutch itself is so tricky for the English that we call something totally incomprehensible “Double-Dutch”!

Whereas, as everyone who’s ever been to Holland knows, all the Dutch speak perfect English without even being invited to! They can spot an English speaker at a vast distance! So one’s chances of picking any Dutch up are minimal!

Back in the day we paid for a translation of PipeDream 3 – program, examples and printed documentation – to German

I bought the German PipeDream 3 version back when I also bought my A3000 (1990 I think). I can honestly say that, compared to many other German translations I encountered before and after, it was very good.

The A3000 manuals were also in German, and also good, but not as good as PipeDream – it showed that they were never reviewed by a native speaker. The Welcome Guide had a funny error when describing the sockets – “32 Ohm personal headphone” became “32 persönliche Kopfhörer”. In the User Guide, “*spool on” explanation said “schaltet die automatische Spulfunktion ein”.

Actually, communication is tricky.

That’s why I didn’t say what languages I’m fluent in during a recent discussion in Aldershot.
If one considers fluency to be the ability to express yourself… then I’m not fluent in any language…

Hallo Paul,

De analogie met de Toren van Babel gaat helaas mank: bij de bouw ervan sprak de gehele gemeenschap juist dezelfde taal. Pas toen Jahweh iedereen van de ene op de andere dag een eigen taal toebedeelde, stortte de boel in elkaar.

Tsja, m’n bijbelkennis is ver weg gezakt sinds m’n kinderjaren. Ik meende dat die toren was gebouwd met de opzet elkaar van grote afstand te kunnen vinden en middels een vertaalprogramma kun je anderen, ongeacht de afstand door taalbarrieres, ook vinden.

(Het is een Bijbelverhaal, dus het spot met alle logica en historiciteit.)

Niet alle verhalen spotten met logica en historiciteit, neem ik aan. Sommige gebeurtenissen werden mondeling doorverteld en andere naderhand verzonnen. En een goed verhaal bevat delen waarheid, toch? ;-)

Onze eigen tijd bewijst dat er uitzonderlijk goed valt samen te werken in verschillende talen, al dan niet met behulp van steeds betere vertaal-software.

Tsja, maar dat konden ze destijds niet weten.

DeepL.com is trouwens gratis, alleen de desktop-app kost geld.

Ik heb gezocht maar kon alleen een Windows- en Mac-versie vinden.

Het kost echt weinig moeite om je reactie in het venstertje van DeepL te typen, in plaats van rechtstreeks op deze site, en vervolgens de vertaling hierheen te kopiëren.

Ik ga eens kijken of dat me gaat lukken ;-)