Progressive Web Apps (PWA)

implementing things like word processors and spreadsheets in a web browser that it becomes silly.

True, but that’s the current trajectory even Libre Office is on board that train.

word processors and spreadsheets in a web browser that it becomes silly.

It’s silly from the point of view that it requires huge amounts of resources and processing power to do something that would otherwise be fairly simple.
But, on the other hand, given a capable browser, it will run. On a Mac, on a PC, on a phone. Hell, it would even work on a microwave with a Bluetooth keyboard if the microwave had enough processing power to run a browser…

Not to mention you get a consistent experience, usually, because you’re browser based and can make your app look and work the same, with only one code base.

I suspect the “Progressive” part is at the development end, not the user end.

Not to mention you get a consistent experience, usually, because you’re browser based and can make your app look and work the same, with only one code base.

Your web app may look the same on different platforms, but it will be entirely inconsistent with native apps on each platform, and probably wont bear much resemblance to any other web app either.

@Charlotte Benton and others

The distinction between a website and a web app is a continuum.

Agreed. The term “web application” isn’t really well-defined.

Being someone who works with developing web applications, I tend to view almost any site with interactivity a “web application”, i.e. webshops, internet banking, etc.

This forum is towards the website end of the spectrum, and it’s probably better off that way. It’s when you’re implementing things like word processors and spreadsheets in a web browser that it becomes silly.

I’m not really fond of JavaScript, myself, being mostly a back-end developer, and I think it’s wise to adhere to the concept of “progressive enhancement”, meaning that you start with the foundation, i.e. the content of the site, and mark it up in modern semantic HTML.

Then you style it using CSS, and finally if and when needed, you may use JavaScript to add functionality.

In my experience, far too many developers jump right into using JavaScript where HTML and CSS would do the job just fine, if only they bothered to learn it properly.

The same goes for JavaScript: Far too many developers thow in a library like jQuery where modern JavaScript would do just fine, again if they bothered to learn modern JavaScript and the DOM.

I think WebAssembly is interesting, not at least as it makes it possible to do client-side programming in something else than JavaScript.

@James Pankhurst

Not to mention you get a consistent experience, usually, because you’re browser based and can make your app look and work the same, with only one code base.

I suspect the “Progressive” part is at the development end, not the user end.

According to Wikipedia, “progressive” in PWAs comes from that such apps should try to adhere to the principles of “progressive enhancement”.

I’m a big fan of “progressive enhancement”, myself, as I think it just makes sense: Make your site in such a way that the most important functionality works on any browser or client.

It’s somewhat controversial, though, like what you may expect as a “baseline”. I think many sites use JavaScript unnecessarily, as in the site not working if you have disabled JavaScript, or use a browser without or with limited support.

By all means, feel free to make your site fancy using all kinds of technologies, but if you can, try to limit what you actually need for a working site, and in this way support the widest range of clients, including assistive technologies like screen readers.

I think many sites use JavaScript unnecessarily, as in the site not working if you have disabled JavaScript, or use a browser without or with limited support.

Exactly. I don’t know of a single survey site that works with Netsurf for example, all saying they need javascript. Banking – way back when, it was possible to use Natwest on RISC OS, but that hasn’t been possible for at least ten years. Shopping?

I have given up even trying any of these in Netsurf. Instead it’s straight to Firefox on Windows, where I know I won’t spend half an hour building up a shopping basket, then find I can’t pay at the end – that’s happened too often, usually because Paypal requires Javascript.

@Rick, Charlotte and David

I know I’ve come across as kind of condescending in this thread, and I realise now that we have different views of what a “web application” is. For me, I’ve been considering more or less any site with interactivity as a “web application” (such as this forum), while I realise that you guys have been thinking more in terms of “cloud solutions” like Google Docs, etc.

I realise therefore that my comments have not been fair, so I take them back and apologise for them.

I agree with you guys that there are privacy concerns involved when it comes to putting our data “into the cloud”, and while there’s a big push by many companies to use their cloud storage solutions, I’ve been vary of it for several reasons:

1) It requires an Internet connection. If you’re away from your PC that means you’re travelling, and you can’t assume you always have an Internet connection, never mind a fast one. I have a cabin in the woods where I love to go, and it barely has a phone connection, with a slow mobile Internet connection, if I’m lucky.

I have a lot of DVDs, Blu-ray and 4K movies, and it would make no sense at all for me to put them “in the cloud”, because for one thing, it would be very expensive, for myself personally, as well as for the society, in terms of the bandwidth used, and for another, it simply wouldn’t work. I’d need something like a fiberoptic connection to able to watch them, and at the cabin, I barely have any connection at all, and this may go for many places.

My solution: I’ve bought a few high-capacity portable hard drives, one being located at my cabin, where I’ve put everything I have, including all my movies and music. Problem solved, and it’s a one-time investment. Moreover, there are no privacy concerns, since everything is local.

I have the same solution at home: A high-capacity drive with everything I have, accessible at hard drive speed.

2) Reliability and privacy concerns. After all, you are putting your data on someone else’s server, and if you can access it, so may in theory someone else, regardless of whatever encryption is being used for the stored data.

I think many use cloud solutions out of convenience, such as being able to share documents and collaborate on them, and understand that the price is that your data is on someone else’s server.

I now have a homepage (although there’s no public content yet), and I feel kind of better at putting my data there, because this is a professional hosting provider, and I’m paying for the service.

In contrast, if you use free services, they need to make money in some way, either through premium services, ads or some other way.

For example, if you use GMail, you have to accept that they scan your mail to give you personalised ads, and while that may be fine for some, personally, I prefer to use my ISP’s mail service, where although they may still access my mail, they have no business interest in doing so.