OLPC and the GUI

I just booted RISC OS on a 2gb card on a Pi Zero. 2gb… a typical GNU+Linux box for a Pi usually needs about 4Gb just to get a console up unless it’s a super-stripped down system like Alpline. GUIs on GNU+Linux systems go from awful to beautiful, although beauty is in the eye of the beholder but usable GUI on a Pi Zero? Give me strength, it can’t even run Kodi 18 without running out of memory and that’s on a JEOS OS.

Of course, I’m preaching to the altar I guess. This is a remarkable achievement and pretty much knocks Linux/*nix into a cocked hat. I use xBSD and other fringe operating systems like Haiku too, so I don’t have a love for any one over the others. The Linux kernel is well suited to a whole host of different jobs from servers to desktops to supercomputers. It’s never struck me as a good choice for a single-user workstation.

(I last used RISC OS back in the days of the Acorn Archimedes. I have a very long history in computers but I’ve dipped in and out so I won’t claim to be an expert, just an interested observer.)

What struck me is RISC OS remains by far the superior OS for ARM devices (and no surprises there) but that’s where things got weird.

I would love to see it being used on the One Laptop Per Child project or similar as it’s far and away superior to GNU+Linux because it’s designed for personal computers (like BeOS) but it still seems, to me, to be hobbled by historical choices that should probably have been deprecated decades ago. What I’m about to say is meant to be productive, not start a flame war. I’m very well aware of the usual complaints (“you’re new here”, “you don’t know what you’re on about”, etc.) so can we all agree not to start hammering me for peering over the top of the goldfish bowl and making some observations, particularly as they’re going to sound like the screech of fingernails on a chalkboard.

There are two huge commercial players out there: Apple and Microsoft. Everyone else is just tagging along, and we can learn a lot from following their leads where the GUI is concerned.

• It’s 2020… and we’re still showing “plings” (we call them “bangs” in *nix and grammar nerd circles) in GUI filenames… really? Even the term “pling” has long been considered arcane.

This isn’t unlike Windows putting .exe or .com after every executable in the GUI. Apple’s current OS is based on BSD Unix at heart with a special GUI atop, but the apps are presented to the user as single icon – which, in reality is a directory containing all the resources, additional libraries, uncle Tom Cobley and all. Love Apple or hate them, you can’t deny this was a genius move. (To be fair, a few odds and ends do need to be “installed” but the majority are simple drag-drop.) The average user has no idea – nor do they need to – that the application icon they’re opening is a directory.

Perhaps it’s time to add an option to hide these otherwise superfluous indicators from the GUI. There’s no need to tinker under the hood of course, programmers get this sort of thing. We accept it.

• Interrupts and CMT.

Last time I saw a computer freeze during a network request like this was on Mac System 7. I suspect the same applied all the way through to System 9 but this is all historical and not really pertinent to this discussion.

I completely understand the amount of work (and the impracticality) of re-writing the executive, but I do question the logic of allowing a single application to bring the whole machine to a grinding halt while it waits for a response from (in this case) a Windows SMB server… This happened because I accidentally hit the wrong server and although Windows was advertising it as a server, nothing is being shared so it just gets stuck.

• The GUI

This is perhaps the most troubling, least welcoming, aspect for users coming from (or going to) RISC OS.

It’s uncomfortable to write this because I know how it feels to be on the receiving end, but sometimes we need to face criticism in order to progress.

I would stop short of calling it ugly, but it sure feels dated – stuck in time somewhere around Windows NT and Windows 95.

I put it on for a couple of teenagers just to see their mouths drop at the sheer and undeniable performance. The older one, who describes his dual-core 5th Generation i5 (dual core “m” version) – as a potato was totally gobsmacked.

And then the full realisation of GUI dawned on him. I can’t repeat what he said, but a few tweaks made it more like what we’re all used to. Skeuomorphism has been long abandoned and it the 3D effect just looks desperately outdated. Like most critics, I lack the necessary skills to fix this, but there are a boatload of great designers who have dedicated any amount of icon, widget and desktop designs to the public domain.

To see this effect in action, consider Ubuntu GNU+Linux. Based on the hugely respected Debian distribution it made two massive improvements. First was ease of use but the larger contribution was a workable and pleasant GUI – which is laughably bad by today’s standards.

It’s easy to look at this with hindsight – and the $10M that Mark Shuttleworth ploughed into the project but it’s spawned some gorgeous and accessible desktop OSes like Linux Mint, Ubuntu Mate, Solus and Elementary.

ARM is everywhere but the dominating OSes run a Linux kernel – be that Android or some GNU+Linux combo.

This is a truly a crying shame, particularly as RISC OS smokes Linux OSes.

Kids need a system that won’t collapse because they hit the reset button. They’re not geeks, they can’t be expected to do the things that modern OSes (Mac OSX, Windows, GNU+Linux… etc.) all expect us to do.

RISC OS is just that system. It’s a remarkable achievement that needs and deserves some love on the front end because that’s what people are demanding. They want the fast car, but they also want a smooth ride and won’t sacrifice that ease of use at any price – largely because on today’s powerful Intel and AMD processors with powerful graphics cards, they don’t have to!

Hi Marc,

Welcome or should that be welcome back.

Skeuomorphism has been long abandoned and it the 3D effect just looks desperately outdated

Agree and thats why I have a slighty cleaner theme running but it could do with a more modern look to it, just don’t say “Green” directories :-)

We often forget that new users have a learning curve to get in to RISC OS as well as appearances matter more today so an updated look may be one item that stops new users not wanting to carry on as soon as they boot up RISC OS.

Appearances are key today as you can either like or lothe something in the first minute by it’s look rather than what it does.

Hope you stay around and continue to contribute and provoke discussion.

Very well written Marc, I must admit though that I’m not fluent in the more tech/code speak of Interrupts and CMT. I’m pretty new to RiscOS and I quite like it’s dated look. I personally find things like Amiga’s 3.9 workbench aesthetic pleasing, and RiscOS reminds me a lot of it. I realize though that I’m not the norm. I agree with you though that given how little resources the OS needs and how smooth it runs is a great accomplishment. Knowing too that it will only get better makes me really excited to see what the OS will be capable of in the future.

Even the term “pling” has long been considered arcane.

Agreed. Apparently we all call applications ‘Plings’ on RISC OS, though¹ – although I can’t say that I’ve ever heard that usage myself in nearly 30 years.

¹ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj3Y4aewbIk at 2:50-ish in.

Perhaps it’s time to add an option to hide these otherwise superfluous indicators from the GUI.

The third-party PhotoFiler can do this, although I’d like to see an option in the OS itself.

I prefer the skuomorphism. It may look dated, certainly, but one of the primary aims of a UI is simplicity, and I find the flattened modern look makes it harder to know what’s something you can tap/click on and what isn’t. At least with RISC OS it is very clear and obvious.

RISC OS 2 didn’t have 3D. We could just turn off all the toolsprites :-O

I think skeumorphism was abandoned because on a tiny phone screen you only have room for plain coloured boxes (just as 30 years ago that’s all you had the resolution for), and the big boys wanted to make their desktop OSes look like their phone OSes.

By the way, the plings are not superfluous, they make sure that applications appear first in a directory. They also make it easy to see the difference between applications and plain directories at the command line.

One wouldn’t have thought the general public we be comfortable with things like www.riscosopen.org/forum and info@riscosopen.org, and other symbols from a website I won’t mention, but these are everywhere now.

It’s really nice to hear another outside perspective.

Perhaps it’s time to add an option to hide these otherwise superfluous indicators from the GUI.

If you dig back in your Archimedes period memories you may recall that various small utilities were produced to deal with such things and hiding the “pling” was easily done. Never integrated with the OS code though so, yes, good suggestion. Default to not show?

GUI appearance is very much a personal thing so extending the available themes might be a valid use of someone’s effort.
A current personal idea is to modify bits to produce something akin to the iPhone “dark theme” or the Windows “High Contrast” dark. Recent experience of sight impairment has given me an interest in easier to read/gaze at display setups which hasn’t gone away with the surgical fix of one eye (waiting on the other)

This should be easy for a user to select – it’s not.

In response to Julie:
“By the way, the plings are not superfluous, they make sure that applications appear first in a directory. They also make it easy to see the difference between applications and plain directories at the command line.”

I believe Marc was suggesting hiding the pling in the GUI rather than totally removing it. Utilities to hide are out there – I’ve not checked the 32 bit compatibility of any but it’s an effect that could easily be added to the OS code along with a !Configure switch.

I’d support the idea of hiding the pling prefix in the Filer displays as a configurable option, but not at the filing system level.

For those not familiar with the history, the prefix is there to give a hint to the Filer to look inside a directory to see if there’s a !Boot to be run or !Sprites to be loaded. Obviously these days there’s little penalty in looking in all local dirs, but you may still be accessing a slow fileserver with many dirs. Plus the pling gives some distinct namespace for applications in the common sprites area.

hiding the pling in the GUI rather than totally removing it.

It could be perhaps set as default option a sort of beginners/advance, or modern/legacy terms if you want, type set up option that is just one part of making the transition to RISC OS easier for new users along with other changes say the mouse button configuration.

A current personal idea is to modify bits to produce something akin to the iPhone “dark theme” or the Windows “High Contrast” dark.

That sounds a good option.

Given that things are reverting to a flat type almost cartoon view then perhaps that could be one option.

A phone icon type set could be one option and the look in Windows 10 build 2004, yes I know, does seem nice and crsip to me and I thought I would never say that.

While were at it the way directory access works may require a bit of work as to a new user getting lots of directories on screen, if you are not aware of how to open parent/child , can leave lots of directories on screen and give a cluttered look on first use.

I thought the way that Select/6 was going looked better and perhaps a variation on the full info display mode which also auto closes directories and gives a tree type view may be a good beginner option along with auto setting the open sub menus automatically set in Windows configuration settings.

Skeuomorphism has been long abandoned and it the 3D effect just looks desperately outdated

If that were the case, you wouldn’t get so many people flocking to Linux Mint to get away from the awful flat, monochromatic and undelineated interface of Windows 10. Other attempts to copy this such has Ubuntu Unity have been a dismal failure.

The human perception model is set up easily recognise colours, textures and overlapping objects. Having no colour sense, not being able to detect the edge of objects and having to hover the mouse over an object to see if it is active, is more akin to the way you have to use touch when blind – and that is what Windows 10 feels like.

If a properly designed unfashionable in this day and age, then so be it, I’m quite willing to wait for Windows 10 to die a death and Skeuomorphism to come back in to fashion.

It could be perhaps set as default option a sort of beginners/advance, or modern/legacy terms if you want, type set up option that is just one part of making the transition to RISC OS easier for new users along with other changes say the mouse button configuration.

Windows has the option to show extensions or not, so it would be similar to that. Taking it one step further, IIRC you can launch the congigure from Apps, so perhaps one option would be to hide !Boot altogether too, so it can’t get moved / deleted.

It could be perhaps set as default option a sort of beginners/advance, or modern/legacy terms if you want, type set up option that is just one part of making the transition to RISC OS easier for new users along with other changes say the mouse button configuration.

I can foresee a problem with this. Suppose the first object in the filer display is, say, !Zoom (suspend disbelief at this point) and the next item in the display, for the sake of argument, is Acorn/jpg or Acorn/bmp (copied in from Windows). If the newcomer thinks the display is alphabetically ordered, they are going to be more confused than if the pling was shown. I’m sure cleverer folk than me can think of similar scenarios which would set the newcomer screaming in frustration.

Lets just think back to the confusion Windows users suffered when hiding file extensions first became the default, and let’s not go there.

Just as with extensions hidden you can have file.jpg.exe which ended up running something nasty, you could do it even more convincingly on RISC OS with plings hidden and a sprites file making the application look like a normal file, without even the clue of the pretend extension being visible.

Confusion? Like having directories appear before files even when you explicitly choose Sort by Name? (on other systems)

I can foresee a problem with this.

Well the application now seen as Zoom will still have it’s application icon as opposed to a file type or directory one.

Don’t forget this is meant to mimic what users see on other systems so they meet a familar look and feel.

We have to put ourseleves in the mind of a new user and I appreciate that things would not be ideal for use long term users and thats why it needs to be a configurable option.

Yes Acorn got a lot right with the GUI/Look/Feel but things have moved on in 30 plus years and if you are to bring people across to try out RISC OS you have to make the initial try as easy as possible and get them hooked.

Don’t forget this is meant to mimic what users see on other systems so they meet a familar look and feel.

It is, to be honest, a somewhere unbalanced argument.

On other systems, the filesystem is generally hidden, only seen in passing when loading and saving files. Some systems take this to the degree where they basically don’t provide filesystem access to the user (iOS), and/or hide huge swathes of the filesystem (Android).

On these systems, it is extremely clear what is a file (that which the filesystem allows access to) and that which is a program (a set of pretty icons that one can choose, often arranged in some sort of menuing setup).

On RISC OS, the two are usually mixed, so the ‘!’ (I call it “exclamation” or sometimes “aargh”, never “pling”) is actually really important to make a clear distinction between what is an app and what is a file. It also helps that the character appears early in the character set, so sorted alphabetically, the apps come first.

to die a death and Skeuomorphism to come back in to fashion.

👏

If the newcomer thinks the display is alphabetically ordered, they are going to be more confused than if the pling was shown.

No more so than a user looking at a Windows Explorer window would be on seeing directories listed before files.

Lets just think back to the confusion Windows users suffered when hiding file extensions first became the default, and let’s not go there

Let’s have the option, and I did say “Default to not show?” so I presume your vote would be for “show pling”

Confusion? Like having directories appear before files even when you explicitly choose Sort by Name? (on other systems)

Since that matches other systems I’d say new users wouldn’t bat an eyelid.

On RISC OS, the two are usually mixed, so the ‘!’ … is actually really important to make a clear distinction between what is an app and what is a file.

I’d always assumed the intention of the icon styles being different (files have the turned up bottom right corner and applications do not) was intended as a visual differentiator.

If the newcomer thinks the display is alphabetically ordered, they are going to be more confused than if the pling was shown.

That’s easily fixed if the option to hide the pling also told the sort to ignore it.

[…] along with a !Configure switch

There’s a certain irony that, in a thread complaining about the use of the pling at the start of application names, we see something like the above…

Even back in 1991, some company called Acorn wrote

You must place your RISC OS applications in a directory whose name begins with ‘!’, such as !Draw. When you refer to the application in documentation or help text, however, you should leave the ‘!’ off the name.

Application names do not contain a pling. The pling is only for the benefit of the Filer. For 15 years, I’ve been editing plings off the front of application names in articles submitted to me for The WROCC.

If we don’t like the pling, we could start by not including it when it shouldn’t be present. It’s “Configure”, not “!Configure”; it lives in the “!Configure” application folder.

Application names do not contain a pling.

I tend to write with a prefixed aargh because, hey, habit. It’s also pretty much copying what is on the screen, and using the prefix helps the name stand out.
Though, Textile is helping fix that, as it uses ! for something.

I should point out, a long time ago when I wrote some info for mom of how to start Ovation, then Printers, then find some files that I had written that she wanted to tweak and then print… She got stuck at the very first hurdle. I omitted all of the !s because I figured it would be too much hassle to explain what that was about.

So she completely ignored !Ovation because I had told her to doubleclick on Ovation.

So, really, whether or not the ! is included should depend upon the audience.

some company called Acorn wrote

Oh, you mean the Acorn that were adamant that the OS is “RISC OS” and denied having ever referred to it as “RiscOS” (they did right in the beginning, and this exact nomenclature is present right there in the source code).
And you must also mean the Acorn that would tell you that ARM didn’t really mean Acorn RISC Machine (the ‘A’ really meant Advanced, not Acorn!) despite having given out merchandise with that exact wording on it?

;-)

So she completely ignored !Ovation because I had told her to doubleclick on Ovation.

Which was wrong according to the Style Guide: you’re double clicking on the !Ovation folder to launch Ovation, so the pling was needed in your instruction.

So, really, whether or not the ! is included should depend upon the audience.

I’d suggest that it should depend on context. :-)