New Raspberry Pi - RISC OS - Upgrading to RISC OS 5.28

The Raspberry Pi 3 B+ that I have been using has finally decided to stop working, I now need a new one, but which one do I go for and why, do I go for Pi 4 4GB or the Pi 4 8GB or maybe the Pi 400, any help would be great and the best place to buy from.

The micro SD card that I have is RISC OS 5.24, once I have a new Pi is this and easy process of upgrading to RISC OS 5.28 without losing any of my files on the micro SD card that I have.

With all files on the micro SD card, is this easy to transfer, if so how can I do this.

Thank you.

A Pi4 4GB is my choice, it’s the fastest RISC OS machine for most things at the moment. If you never use much memory you could save a few pounds and go for the 2GB version. There is no point in going for 8GB, RISC OS can’t use it.

It is possible to update your SD card to 5.28 while preserving all your RISC OS files – but make sure you take a backup by low level copying the entire SD card before starting. You’ll need to update the files on the FAT partition, and also update the RISC OS disc image.

There are numerous Pi resellers here; typically found when you hit the buy button. If you don’t need RISC OS support, go for CPC Farnell or one of the others listed on the Raspberry Pi foundation’s website. If you purchased a Pi from CJE Micros, you would be dealing with someone who understands RISC OS, same with buying a Pi-based computer from R-Comp. You’ll get support; best call CJE to confirm this.

So far, I’ve purchased the 4 and 8GB models, and I’m happy with them. I didn’t need the faster Pi400 as I have an excellent keyboard, although an all-in-one approach is an attractive option; a thermal case, power supply, and keyboard.

There are many approaches. I’d recommend you initially use a separate micro SD card with RISC OS to test the setup works, and then you can transfer the files over. With a second SD card, at least you’ll have a backup.

I believe that you will need a new card suitable for your new hardware to kick things off with: at least RO 5.28 for a Pi 4, or 5.29 for a Pi 400, and can then migrate your files over.

David,

That is what I have been thinking about a Pi4 4GB, why can’t RISC OS run on a Pi4 8GB, or is this another topic somewhere.

Andrew,

You say you have Pi4 8GB models, but guess your not running RISC OS on them, will also look at all options where best to buy from.

Is there much of a difference if I went for a Pi400 compared to a Pi4 4GB.

Will take your advice on the approach on backing up.

Stuart,

New care for new hardware, makes sense.

What would the advantages be buying a Pi400 if any at all.

why can’t RISC OS run on a Pi4 8GB, or is this another topic somewhere.

8GB on the Pi is being developed.

Using a ROM built from unreleased sources on git see this from my 8GB RPi4

8GB support is being added to the mainstream ROM. With the current source an 8GB ROM can be built which does start up on the Pi but as there is further work to be done actually using it might not be a good idea.

David,

Thank you. If I went for a Pi4 8GB, what would I need to get up and running, or would I have to wait until the ROM is released from development.

If I went for a Pi4 8GB, what would I need to get up and running, or would I have to wait until the ROM is released from development.

Wait for the ROM unless one is up for home building

What would the advantages be buying a Pi400

Advantages:

• Form factor. The Pi 400 is a computer built in to a keyboard case.
• A heat sink is included, so it’s less likely to overheat.

Disadvantages:

• The keyboard is of the sort fitted to laptops, i.e. limited key travel. If you’re used to a full-key-travel keyboard, you may not like the keyboard.
• Not all HATs will work. This is primarily because the Pi 400 does not allow HATs to back-power the Pi via the GPIO pins.

If you want to use Linux- 8GB might be handy :-)

I wonder if Linux RO works with the Pi 4 series?

[Edit] whoops!

I thought RISC OS worked on the 8MB version but did not expose more than 4GB.

I thought RISC OS worked on the 8GB version but did not expose more than 4GB

It does. We’ve sold quite a few 8GB machines that only show 4GB, as a sort of ‘future preparedness’ model. Our FOURtress model is particularly popular for this, having so much memory AND being overclocked to 2.1GHz out of the box.

Especially useful when combined with a Linux dual boot…

If you’re buying for use as a RISC OS board, I would actually recommend the 2GB model, saving you money. Whilst the 4GB and 8GB models do work, and may expose the RAM, the reality is that both are rather “cutting edge” in terms of how the OS handles RAM. Traditionally, the 4GB address space was split between 2GB for applications and 2GB reserved for dynamic areas. This has now changed, but whether applications are fully aware is somewhat debatable.

For example, a colleague bought a 4GB board just before the show, and his first act was to edit a file in StrongEd. StrongEd reported “not enough memory” (!) and wouldn’t edit the file. Fortunately, an email to Fred resulted in an alpha build with a fix for this, but it illustrates the situation.

The reality is that even the most RAM demanding programs such as Iris are quite happy in 2GB. I haven’t seen Iris use more than 1GB, and I run with a 512MB RAM disc. Even when Iris is running, I typically have 800 MB+ free (not checked).

Also (unconfirmed) due to the way some applications reserve memory for dynamic areas, it is likely that applications will begin to “choke” long before you fill 2GB of apps, let alone 4GB. Since practically all RISC OS applications use 10MB or (usually much) less (outside of data), 2GB remains a collosal amount of RAM for RISC OS use, and saves you money into the bargain, as 2GB Pi4 is about 10-15ukp cheaper than 4GB.

Of course, if you’re also running other OSs on it, they will benefit from more RAM, I’m sure. But for RISC OS, 2GB remains the safe choice, and put the saving towards NutPi or something :)

I thought RISC OS worked on the 8GB version but did not expose more than 4GB

It does work on 8GB (older versions will see only 4GB) and there is an experimental ROM image that also uses all the 8GB.

Edit:
ouch! many have already answered this, sorry :)

Also, my advice on buying a board – why not buy a board wherever, and pay a (usually small) amount of money to a RISC OS company such as myself, CJE or RISC OS Bits for help/advice? That way, you’re supporting the RISC OS scene, even whilst DIY-ing things. The reason I say this is that there are no dealer margins on Pis, so even if you buy your Pi board from a RISC OS company, they’re probably making little to no money (unless they’re charging through the nose).

Instead, most RISC OS companies charge low rates for help, assistance, consultancy on things even if you don’t buy from them. I won’t say other peoples’ rates, and mine do vary depending on the nature of the job, but it is generally not expensive – think “meal out for two”, and often less.

You say you have Pi4 8GB models, but guess your not running RISC OS on them

I’m happily running RISC OS on an 8GB model; 4GB available (Micro SD card firmware and a USB !Boot Drive).

Is there much of a difference if I went for a Pi400 compared to a Pi4 4GB.

Not really; the Pi400 is slightly faster, has an on/off switch, and includes most of what you need. With the Pi4 4GB, smaller footprint, you’ll have more to do, choice; buying a case (with or without on/off switch, thermal or fan-cooled, with storage or not), buying the Raspberry Pi power supply, micro HDMI cable and you get to use any keyboard and mouse. Saying that, you can still plug in an external keyboard and mouse of your choice if you went for the Pi400.

Will take your advice on the approach on backing up.

Cool :)

When replying to posts, how you you go about making quotes?

For myself I would go for a Pi-400 and leave the Pi4. Actually I have given my Pi4 away to a fellow Big Ben Club member after I have bought the Pi400.
I like the Pi-400 it is a nice keyboard all the connectors on the back and show the Pi grows into a mature computer. Although Andrew is right in saying that RISC-OS and its applications have a small footprint I would go for 4 Gbyte or more if you consider running another OS.

You say you have Pi4 8GB models, but guess your not running RISC OS on them

I’m happily running RISC OS on an 8GB model; 4GB available (Micro SD card firmware and a USB !Boot Drive).

Same here. So experimental versions of RISC OS do work fine with 8GB, but Andrew Rawnsley is absolutely correct, some of the RISC OS Apps DON’T and they may require some patching.

Also RISCOSBits and Andrew R. are correct on the memory use, 8GB only really helps when you use Linux on the same PI. But if you are planning to use ONLY RISC OS and you want as little troubles as possible then the 2GB version is the most stable so far (and the cheapest!).

I would say (and no, I am NOT affiliated with any vendor!) that if you want best performance from your PI 4 you definitely want to check out the RISCOSBits Fortress. That case is one of the best available to cool down the CPU and the extra chips on the PI 4 (both in active and passive mode) reducing the temperature dramatically and helping the long term life of the board as well as keep its performance optimal especially when you want to squeeze extra perfs using overclocking.

While if you want a selection of software then also the 4te’ looks really cool.

Great to see that Andrew R. is pushing for the support, thanks so much Andrew! :)

Now if someone wants to pay my royalties as a sales guy, I do accept Custard Doughnuts donations :D

Same here. So experimental versions of RISC OS do work fine with 8GB, but Andrew Rawnsley is absolutely correct, some of the RISC OS Apps DON’T and they may require some patching.

;) Citation definitely required. Experimental version? A list of applications that don’t work? Perhaps for fun, you may want to open a new thread with the list of all the problematic RISC OS apps. I’ll grab my coat before we have any more FUD. ;)

@Geoff
See below, the bottom of the page bq. enables quotes. Click here or here for more information.

Edit: to include ROOL wiki page on forum posts. How to quote, etc.

Now if someone wants to pay my royalties as a sales guy, I do accept Custard Doughnuts donations :D

You lost me at “custard” – that’s just all wrong! Raspberry Jam (standard, analogue, crushed raspberries, not digital/electronic ones), and we may have had a deal!

I would say (and no, I am NOT affiliated with any vendor!) that if you want best performance from your PI 4 you definitely want to check out the RISCOSBits Fortress. That case is one of the best available to cool down the CPU and the extra chips on the PI 4 (both in active and passive mode) reducing the temperature dramatically and helping the long term life of the board as well as keep its performance optimal especially when you want to squeeze extra perfs using overclocking.

IMHO, it absolutely is. That’s why we developed the software to control the fan. You can thrash the n*ts off the Pi, and the case will warm the room up a touch, but the CPU and board won’t get hot. And it fits in your trouser/shirt/jacket pocket for portability!

If I decide to go for the Pi4 8GB, is there the ROM available for downloading and testing, if not then guess will have to go for the Pi4 4GB. Reason for the Pi4 8GB as will use other operating systems.

If I decide to go for the Pi4 8GB, is there the ROM available for downloading and testing

The standard RISC OS 5.28 ROM will load and run on the 8GB Pi 4. The only restriction is that RISC OS will only see 4GB of the 8GB RAM.