Normal people using RISC OS.

It’s probably true to say that the vast majority of RISC OS users are hardcore computer nerds, who use it for reasons that most people would see as a facet of that nerdiness. But do any normal people use RISC OS? I’d be genuinely interested to know.

But do any normal people use RISC OS? I’d be genuinely interested to know.

I suspect not, and have no evidence to the contrary.

I suspect most of us are also Not All That Young.

I think I’m among the normal people. When I have to do some DPT-like stuff, I will inevitably return to OvationPro, ArtWorks and the such. They never let me down. And I will always sing the praise of the RISC OS filing system to anyone who wants to listen (no one, actually). I love programming, which may put me into the other faction, but I never exceeded the amateur level. So, yes… normal people do use RISC OS.

I think I’m among the normal people.

I’m not convinced…

I never exceeded the amateur level.

I don’t think that precludes you being a hardcore computer nerd at all. I certainly never exceeded the amateur level either – despite actually having been professional. I’ve met plenty of amateurs whose level is way above mine.

When the Dean of Sciences asked me to chair a new Computer Science department I protested that in that subject I was an amateur. He riposted by saying that computer science was so new that everyone in it was an amateur. He was quite wrong, but I was definitely right about myself. As to normal, I would not dare to give an opinion. When I was a small child I refused to accept that I was a human being, and was therefore not bound by my grandmother’s strictures. To this day I refuse to accept the poisonous assumption that there is a schism between Arts and Sciences or the Creative and the Nerd. This topic is not for Aldershot; it goes to the heart of RISC OS.

But do any normal people use RISC OS? I’d be genuinely interested to know.

Nerdy answer: Please define normal ;P

More on the topic, if with “normal people” we intend the so called “average user”, then they also have an age range.

In most cases RISC OS doesn’t have “popular” applications most age ranges of average users use. For instance:

• no AAA games (ex. Fortine, Animal Crossing, NMS, Crisis etc)
• no Facebook/Twitch/Twitter/Instagram/others.
• no modern office suites" like Office 365, Apple Page/Numbers/KeyNote. Or even Open Office (which is already a stretch!)
• no Zoom/Teams etc.
• no Slack/Discord/others
• no modern email clients either
• maybe soon it will have a decent browser that may help a bit with some of the above, but that browser is still not part of any distro and if you try it you a) have to pay and b) it messes with your apps

It doesn’t even run on the most popular devices these days (smart phones, smart watches and tables), or gaming laptops (yes emulation on the latest is obviously possible, but that means you’re running something else FIRST and that has more applications than RISC OS, so why would one bother using RISC OS on those?)

Even if it would, it has no security, so would you trust using RISC OS as your daily driver as an average user? Maybe as a musician if it runs on a device that one only use connected to a keyboard, for example, but that is not a daily driver for sure.

Then, if someone attempts to use it (god knows why!), it doesn’t work as what most people are used to use, so it also has a learning curve and for what at the end of it? Oh wait, I know, “enlightenment” ;)

So, I am pretty sure that the wast majority of “average users” do not use RISC OS and, most likely, do not even have an idea it exists.

I see some interest from people playing around with embedded ideas, but for those they need a slightly different RISC OS, we discussed this many times.

It’s probably true to say that the vast majority of RISC OS users are hardcore computer nerds

This is not my experience. Most RISC OS users are just normal users. They are happy to use mainly the same software that they learned to love and use during the past 30 years and don’t see sufficient reasons to change. Amongst my customers, less than 5% have ever posted either in this forum or on Usenet. Most of the hardcore computer nerds have left RISC OS a long time ago. Especially software developers.

Additionally, during the last 30 years, there is a clear trend amongst RISC OS users going from “doing everything with RISC OS” to “using RISC OS for the things it does well”.

I am fairly sure that the two remaining big commercial suppliers, R-Comp and CJE, are on record for observing the same patterns.

I echo Steffen – many people I communicate with regarding PipeDream and Fireworkz I would class as “normal users” who just like the platform and are comfortable with its applications. Few of them post here.

I suspect most of us are also Not All That Young.

I was quite young (and quite normal) when I started using RISC OS

(and quite normal) when I started using RISC OS

Hopefully things did not change because of RISC OS :)

I echo Steffen – many people I communicate with

Yup, I think the majority of the faithful users base still use it for certain software. My point was in reference to modern average users, obviously.

I, indeed fall into that category too with the old music apps like Sibelius, but in my particular case, RO 5 does not have MIDI music creation applications yet (with exception of Rhapsody 4 on the Iyonix). So, I am more stuck to RO 4 for that matter. However I do run Sib on a Pi using ArchiEmu, so at least I have a way to use it beyond the RiscPC. RPCEmu and VirtualAcorn still do not support reliable MIDI, so can’t use them for music.

When it comes to RISC OS I’m definitely not a normal user. My regular OS is GNU/Linux and my engagement with RISC OS is driven by a mixture of curiosity and nostalgia, and I don’t personally know anyone who does not fall into this or a similar category. This is one of the reasons why I don’t quite feel comfortable contributing (that, and a general lack of time) – I’m not invested enough to feel confident are what is the right things to do. (Also: Hi! Seems a lot has happened while I’ve been away.)

And I will always sing the praise of the RISC OS filing system to anyone who wants to listen (no one, actually).

I would read it, if you started a topic on it! :)

The very first computer I got my hands on was an Apple ][. I remember being fascinated, but also frustrated. I have always had these mixed feelings. It is the constant possibility of doing things better. For a consumer, this reaction may seem ungracious towards all those people who made the device possible. There are many practical activities which would be impossible without a computer now. But for me that is not their salient aspect. RISC OS has clear advantages for certain things, particularly its GUI. But its possibilities for improvement are also a tantalizing challenge and a stimulus to learning.

I suppose there are several potential classes of “normal” RISC OS users:

• “Yes, my computer is getting on a bit, but it does everything I want, so what’s the point in getting a new one?”
• Having some “killer app” reason for using it that makes switching to a more common OS very difficult. (Aren’t there rumours that current RISC OS development is partly funded by such a user?)
• Having an employer who insists on using it. (It would be interesting to know if anyone is in this position.)

Any other suggestions?

I have to admit that RISC OS isn’t my primary operating system either, but I’m drawn to it by an “Acorn Shall Conquer All” fanaticism that has never really left me, and which isn’t properly sated by ARM’s success. (Incidentally, more ARM chips are made every 10 minutes than were made during the entire Archimedes era.)

I regard RISC OS as my primary operating system, though in terms of hours, I probably spend more time in Firefox on Windows.

The reasons I use RISC OS include Ovation Pro, Messenger Pro, Draw, !pdf (because it can output Draw files), Pipedream, and massively, BBC BASIC.

THe GUI is important to me, and the ability to program on RISC OS, which is better from my perspective than other platforms. While Python may have changed that recently, my investment in BASIC is far too large to consider changing now.

My non-RISC OS activity is mainly browsing using Firefox, developing web sites using Notepad++ and Wampserver – Webjames doesn’t support Mysql, hence the switch to Wampserver.

When away from home I use Messenger Pro for Windows, which synchronises with the RISC OS primary server when at home.

and Wampserver

???

please explain. What is Wampserver?

What is Wampserver?

WampServer est une plate-forme de développement Web sous Windows pour des applications Web dynamiques à l’aide du serveur Apache2, du langage de scripts PHP et d’une base de données MySQL. Il possède également PHPMyAdmin pour gérer plus facilement vos bases de données.

HTH

Possibly an odd reason. I build hardware music synthesizer modules. In some of the modules, I need to be able to generate fairly accurately timed trigger pulses. The only programming language I know reasonably well is zillion-year-old BASIC. I need direct access to hardware I/O.

I don’t want to learn another language. I’m old, and my brain is full. The syntax and program structure of BASIC aligns nicely with the linear thought processes involved in making music, and that’s how I think.

Windows is out, no hardware access unless I buy mega-$$$ interfaces. Mac? – even less likely. Linux? I don’t want to spend the time to learn arcane Linux commands. Arduino? I use lots of them as controllers, and I’m reasonably comfortable with their coding, but user interfaces are close to impossible to implement and still have enough RAM to do anything usable. Raspberry Pi? Linux in a small box that takes 5 minutes to boot, but otherwise usable. DOS on old pcs? Quite usable, but big and bulky.

IchigoJam is an implementation of BASIC running standalone on RPi hardware, but only has 1K available RAM. Cute, but too limited to be usable.

So I ran across RISC OS while researching alternates to Linux on RPi, and it meets all my criteria. Small, cheap, fast, direct access to GPIO, runs a BASIC dialect very close to what I already know, boots in seconds. I’m not attempting to use it for general day-to-day computing.

That’s my story, thanks to all for keeping old ideas alive.

Having an employer who insists on using it. (It would be interesting to know if anyone is in this position.)

A few years ago Durham County Council sold off a couple of Iyonixes which they had been using to produce the bus timetable sheets that are put up at bus stops. They were still using the same software, but had moved to either Raspberry Pis or emulation. I can’t remember which.

My father is a normal RISC OS user. When my parents needed a new computer to replace the Amstrad CPC my brother suggested a RISC PC because they could always install a PC card if they needed to. They never did. The RISC PC was later replaced with an Iyonix, which they’re still using.

I am a nerd i confess.

I dislike Windows.
And for doing documents, i prefer to do it with impression.
And there’s nothing like Impression on Windows.

Like a number of previous posters to this thread, I started using RISC OS at a time – the early 90s – when the Archimedes offered a uniquely advanced and intuitive experience. I learned to use and love Impression, Artworks, Photodesk, Messenger Pro and Rhapsody, and – surprise surprise – I still do (though Ovation Pro has supplanted Impression). Of course there’s no escaping the fact that RISC OS is deficient in many aspects of modern (especially mobile) computer use, though praiseworthy individuals are making very creditable efforts to fill some of the gaps, thinking particularly of YTPlay, RiscOSM and Python (and maybe Iris, as and when it becomes widely available), and of course I realise this, but using a Wintel laptop in conjunction with TightVNC and Avalanche enables me to access Firefox etc on my Pi4’s RISC OS desktop, so RISC OS remains my daily system of choice, and I’m increasingly hopeful that that can and will remain the case.

RDPclient does the same job for me with nothing special on the (headless) XP end of the connection.

Occasionally, I have to use headless Windo$e 7 when Firefox 52 is not up-to-date enough on XP.

!Avalanche is good for connections to other headless RO Raspberry Pi

For an increased number of normal users to give RISC OS a go you’d need to have an up to date browser running on the RO machine itself rather than from another computer. For Iris to be fully effective I’d have thought it would need to be able to use multiple cores and hardware acceleration from the gpu. Faster hardware than a Pi 4 would help too.

The Linux port opens up the possibility of having linux software making full use of the underlying hardware and displaying in a window on the RISC OS desktop. This is basically how Google made more software available on Chromebooks. The port should also run on the new Cortex A76 and A78 systems that are hitting the market.

Personally, I think ROOL should be offering bounties for development of the Linux port. It surely offers the fastest way to get more people (normal or otherwise!) using RISC OS more often.

A few years ago Durham County Council sold off a couple of Iyonixes which they had been using to produce the bus timetable sheets that are put up at bus stops. They were still using the same software, but had moved to either Raspberry Pis or emulation. I can’t remember which.

I searched for Durham and RISC OS, and came across this thread on the other place:

https://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=23134

But do any normal people use RISC OS? I’d be genuinely interested to know.

Normal people do not even know RISC OS exists :)

But, perhaps you talk of normal use. I’m a daily user of RISC OS, and use it to do my office & home work. Word processor, spreadsheet and mail. Some gaming at lunch and listening to web radio.

Any other suggestions?

I just choose to use it. Before, it was Windows, and before Linux. Two offers far more superior. But not for me.

Personally, I think ROOL should be offering bounties for development of the Linux port. It surely offers the fastest way to get more people (normal or otherwise!) using RISC OS more often.

I don’t think so. But it will help RISC OS users to run RISC OS on all unsupported ARM boards. An official support would help to finish the port, and to set up a database of compatible boards / cloud services.

So +1. RISC OS on Linux should be an official port, the same way RPCEmu has a port and a specific forum section.