Normal people using RISC OS.

I could argue that I’m a normal user. I use Messenger on my Risc PC to download my e-mails. I use Netsurf to have a quick look at the mobile version of Facebook. Maybe a quick game of Assylum or Lemmings.

Ah but the fact that My ‘Risc PC’ is virtualised using RPCEmu kinda tips the scales in favour of geeky rather than ‘normal’. I wonder, does it matter that RISC OS is geeky or fringe? Surely as an OS it’s doing better than at any time since 1998! As long as we continue to get younger folks into the scene RISC OS will be around for some time yet.

I’m also writing a novel on RISC OS. (Not being pretentious, been chipping away at it for over ten years now – more of a hobby than anything else!)

I was about to say none of us here are normal, thank god, you wont catch us using Facebook for instance… but now you’ve ruined it!

I’m probably a “hardcore computer nerd”, but until this year I’d done very little programming on my RISC OS computers, just played games and done a bit of drawing and writing. So it has mostly been my OS for being a “normal person”.

“I was about to say none of us here are normal, thank god, you wont catch us using Facebook for instance… but now you’ve ruined it!”

I live in a different country from the one I was born in, so FB is a useful tool to keep in touch with family. Mostly I use the messenger part. I don’t do memes, politics, medical opinions, ‘me too’ posts or other BS. :)

Becky.

I’m a bit of a geek, play around with BASIC for fun (no good at it, but it’s fun) and use a Pi, which is probably not “normal” computer usage, but I do definitely like to use RiscOS for everyday things. I use Messenger for email as I’ve found the Gmail interface is getting worse and worse over time. For sites on which it works well, I really like Netsurf.

I prefer RiscOS in general over Windows – especially in the post WinXP environment – as the user interface and backwards compatibility have gotten progressively more and more disjointed and broken. The UI in Risc OS is certainly a big part of the appeal for me in RiscOS, and says a lot for Acorn that they implemented a well thought out design language that the OS has stuck with through multiple generations. I liked it in school, and still like it now.

I keep meaning to revisit my old uni thesis as the basis for a book – again, for the enjoyment of it – and really don’t like any of the Windows options, so will likely do this on RiscOS when I get round to it. Any thoughts on a good WP for academic book projects, Becky? Please don’t send me to MS Word…. the horror!

I also like scuba diving and keep meaning to digitise my log books at some point, so a simple clean little database could be good for that, especially one that would like me link in image files to keep track of the photos from my wannabe-Costeau moments. Right now they’re in a disorganised heap on Google Photos back from when Google axed the link between that and Google Drive :(

Totally agree about FB too, Becky. I live in the UK at the moment but have family and friends from Oz (and NZ), and Messenger is a life saver. I’m hoping ChatCube does mature and bring FB Messenger support over to RiscOS, and it’d be a more elegant solution than using the mobile web version. I have it on Android, which is great for video chats, but for simple text messages while working (or playing), it’d be nice to have it on my RiscOS desktop.

I keep meaning to revisit my old uni thesis as the basis for a book – again, for the enjoyment of it – and really don’t like any of the Windows options, so will likely do this on RiscOS when I get round to it. Any thoughts on a good WP for academic book projects, Becky? Please don’t send me to MS Word…. the horror!

Techwriter works for me

Any thoughts on a good WP for academic book projects,

None, if possible. For archive purposes always use plain text. You can no more retrieve text from a formatted document than eggs from a Christmas pudding. Before I retired, twenty years ago, the standard document preparation system for academic publishing was LaTeX. That may have changed to some more friendly markdown system. But LaTeX gives you complete control over the content and its structure, leaving presentation details to the publisher’s preferred style. And you can use it on RISC OS, though for the snazzier editing tools you have to go elsewhere.

There was a time when I used TechWriter. But if you do, keep your sources as plain text. Most publishers will not have heard of TechWriter and (used to) demand LaTeX. The trouble with TechWriter is that it is not a textual format; i.e. the semantics of a byte in the file is not independent of position, which makes it virtually impossible to edit on computers to which TechWriter has not been ported.

Techwriter works for me

Having been a University lecturer in Chemistry (physical) in my working life Techwriter was certainly excellent when dealing with e.g. the maths of physical chemistry (or chemical physics). However, I always found Ovation Pro my preferred document processor and also used it for e.g the departments newsletter which I took over and quickly moved it from a simple Word document to a multi-column version with pictures etc.

For the more technical documents I used Ovation Pro and Techwriter in combination. OPro was used for the document layout, but Techwriter was used to deal with the actual maths type stuff which was then embedded as a draw file in the main document. I also produced my Text>Draw application to make it easier to embed equations etc in to OPro documents.

The other staff were always envious of what I managed to achieve with RISC OS in comparison with their PC and Mac based efforts.

There was a time when I used TechWriter. But if you do, keep your sources as plain text. Most publishers will not have heard of TechWriter and (used to) demand LaTeX. The trouble with TechWriter is that it is not a textual format; i.e. the semantics of a byte in the file is not independent of position, which makes it virtually impossible to edit on computers to which TechWriter has not been ported.

Gavin makes good points re: storing in plain text and the use of LaTeX in particular where jounal publishers want a consistent style between articles but for a book I think that PDF is generally accepted and TW has features to help with book preparation.

PDF format is now pretty well accepted by most publishers.

There are probably two aspects here. The format submitted to the publisher (or in some cases the printer) and what you use yourself initially. I wouldn’t wish to produce anything of more than a few hundred words in Zap or Edit! The document processor such as OPro, Easywriter, Techwriter or Impression is as much to make it easier on oneself than anything else. It is now possible to output as PDF from any of these, and to dump out the text without any styles as required.

It is very rare for a publisher to expect the submission to be print ready, but in a format the text can be accessed for preproduction editing and applying the current house style.

Any thoughts on a good WP for academic book projects

And:

PDF format is now pretty well accepted by most publishers.

Just to throw in my tuppenny, for the novella that I’ll likely die before finishing, I’m using Google Docs. The reason for this is primarily because I can edit it on “whatever”. This is partly useful as I’m not constrained to any specific machine, but also necessary as I began writing it when waiting for mom to go through the PET scanner. Clearly a phone or a tablet (with a Bluetooth keyboard!) would work in a way that any RISC OS machine simply couldn’t.

Yes, publishers usually accept PDFs (though some prefer Word files). If you are aiming at a specific publisher, such as Amazon Kindle, then I’d advise you to examine the templates they supply before you start. For my document, I looked at Kindle and Lulu and set up the margins for whatever was largest. You might be surprised by the margin requirements of a regular book along the spine edge.

The first problem with Docs, however, is that the renderer is shit. The app, the web version, and the final PDF, are all laid out in subtly different ways. This can show up with tabbed tables and where page breaks happen. It’s not a crisis, but absolutely do check the PDF from time to time to ensure everything is correct.
The second problem is that the app, which could really shine, is actually the barest minimum that works. For anything fancy (like custom footers or section headings) you’ll be heading to the web version.

If you have Iris, it actually works on RISC OS. Granted, pretty damn slowly due to the single core issue, but it does work. That’s pretty epic.

If other systems (etc) isn’t a concern, then the simplest is probably OvationPro or Impression (I’m an OPro guy). If you plan to use weird symbols and the like, it might be worth creating a few test PDFs and seeing how they appear on another device.

None, if possible. For archive purposes always use plain text.

Books often expect to be laid out in a certain fashion, regarding chapter headings and inline effects (bold, italic, font changes, etc). Text is good, but it’s not so good for a book.
Latex is a good suggestion, but the learning curve may be an issue. I think the eventual decision will come down to how formal the work is, and of course author preference.

And, to reiterate this:

It is now possible to output as PDF from any of these, and to dump out the text without any styles as required.

I hope I am not dragging this thread in directions in which it was not intended to go. My personal technique on preparing material intended for webpages, articles on programming, etc. is first to write down headings then some text, in StrongED – Zap is probably just as good. I surround chunks of text with double square brackets: [[ here is some text ]]. The closing ]]s can be further down the page from the opening [[s. Then in front of each opening [[ I stick a name, say :

FooBar [[ here is some text ]]

For articles on programming one needs functions for

• paragraphs
• preformatted code
• quoted words
• headings
• lists
• URLs and links
• images

which covers quite a lot. If I am producing HTML then I do all the formatting, colouring, etc, with CSS quite separately.

Thanks for the replies, everyone! It’s a humanities text, so no heavy technical elements, the usual text formatting, citations, some tables and B&W photographs. Funny it should come up, as I’ve looked at LuLu for publication, but a small academic book (not journal) publisher is also willing to take it on and I believe they want PDFs as well. Given that, am leaning towards EasiWriter.

Not to derail further but on that note, does anyone know what the difference is between EasiWriter+ and full version is? Looking at Nutpi there’s a few apps within the bundle that also interest me, and the whole let is a lot cheaper than just EW full version on it’s own.

I’ve got Iris and must admit I like how it’s coming along, but yeah, it’s still waaaay to slow on my Pi3 for Gdocs to be usable (though I’ve also found the same thing with Gdocs slightly wonky export filters).

Not to derail further but on that note, does anyone know what the difference is between EasiWriter+ and full version is? Looking at Nutpi there’s a few apps within the bundle that also interest me, and the whole let is a lot cheaper than just EW full version on it’s own.

I found my decade old version of NutPi while moving out of my flat a few weeks ago. The version of Writer+ in mine can only export EasiWriter or Text files. It can’t export Word etc. like the full version of EasiWriter. Also, my version of Writer+ only runs under Aemulor on my Pi. I don’t know if it’s been updated since.

and I believe they want PDFs as well. Given that, am leaning towards EasiWriter.

No need to use Easiwreiter just because it outputs PDF. There are multiple ways to print to PDf files from any application which can print. Steve Fryatt’s PrintPDF would be a good starting point.
https://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/risc-os/printpdf

Written using OvationPro. Printed using the standard PostScript 2 driver ¹. Converted to PDF using PrintPDF. Entirely created on RISC OS.
https://riscos.fr/frob31/

¹ Don’t use sprite, use JPEG. The driver attempts to turn every pixel of a sprite into a tiny rectangle of the appropriate colour, which is madness!

Cool! THanks for the heads up, both :)