What does Select have that we lack?

5 has had this for at least a year

That’s okay. The comparison list is ever decreasing… ;-)

Adjust click on switcher opens Configure.

You can add yet another vote for it.

The idea that it shouldn’t be done because we already have two methods to access Configure is irrelevant. Having two methods to access the task manager, one on each of the Select and Adjust keys, is pointless. But the most common reasons to use the switcher are to open the task manager, to use Configure, and to shut down. No-one would suggest that we put the last mentioned on an Adjust click. But task manager on select and configure on adjust seems eminently sensible to me.

[FastBasic-Toolbox comparison] Objects had a tree-structure, but, unlike our toolbox, leaf objects could be code.

The TB is completely event driven, but events have to be associated with functions, which would then be the equivalent of leaf code objects. Because the TB can be used from any language we could not have a system that worked like FastBasic. I have often wanted to be able to enter BASIC FN names into ResEd instead of event numbers, but of course that would be too specialised.

RISC OS 5 has had PC Delete as standard since its launch, hasn’t it?

It used to be an option but was removed some years ago Unless I’m being totally blind!

It used to be an option but was removed some years ago Unless I’m being totally blind

I believe the “optional item” now is to find and install a third party utility if you want to use the schema of 20 years ago.

You can add yet another vote for it

I don’t doubt it. The thing that would surprise me is the first vote agreeing with the “veto”

But the most common reasons to use the switcher are to open the task manager, to use Configure, and to shut down.

I would suspect that the most common reasons to use the switcher are exactly the reverse of the list you gave in order of regularity of use¹:
i.e. Shutdown, Configure, Task Manager.

¹ Of course if you’re fiddling/developing the order might change, but for general users I think I have the order right

The thing that would surprise me is the first vote agreeing with the “veto”

Anybody? Anybody? Anybody?

But the most common reasons to use the switcher are to open the task manager, to use Configure, and to shut down.

I would suspect that the most common reasons to use the switcher are exactly the reverse of the list you gave in order of regularity of use i.e. Shutdown, Configure, Task Manager.

Yup, it’s ‘cos we’re nerdy and TaskManager is a quick way to kill errant tasks. I suspect for most, TaskManager is mostly irrelevant these days. Free memory is <BIGNUM>, and that’s about all that’s important. Sure, you can drag around the Next slot, but the auto-adapting WimpSlot means you pretty much don’t need to (and it can just be set to <BIGNUM> and left). There’s also the RAMdisc if anybody needs it, but….. Yeah… I can see that for non-devs, that little icon at the bottom right would be a way to get to settings and to sensibly shut down…oh, and some scary looking bar chart thing. ;-)

Did I miss it but didn’t RISC OS 6 has the rounded buttons option? Not that I liked them much.

The thing that would surprise me is the first vote agreeing with the “veto”

Anybody? Anybody? Anybody?

Not even the “veto”?

Yup, it’s ‘cos we’re nerdy

Really? Shurely not :)

Free memory is

You mean it doesn’t start using virtual memory when the RAM runs out because you loaded two spreadsheets? ;)

There’s also the RAMdisc if anybody needs it,

Memphis. It resizes itself.

but….. Yeah… I can see that for non-devs, that little icon at the bottom right would be a way to get to settings and to sensibly shut down…oh, and some scary looking bar chart thing. ;-)

Sums it up for anyone who didn’t grow up with pre-RO5.

Did I miss it but didn’t RISC OS 6 has the rounded buttons option? Not that I liked them much.

That was mentioned in the newsgroup post :)

Any mention of rounded corners will be assumed to be facetious and appropriately discounted.

Anybody? Anybody? Anybody?

Let’s try

1/ a task manager (left click) with modules, so expandable : memory + control, opened files, opened sockets, logs, realtime cpu load, sound state + control, state of other cores, etc. All of this with parts that can be folded/deployed.
2/ right click could do the same for a very welcomed hypervisor mode, that will solve the zero page problem, as it will provide a classic ROS 5.22 environment in a VM (or even a 26bit one). Could be expandable to reflect the state of several emulation engines with control of tasks and resources for each of them.

:D

Hypervisor could be an hardware one (on Cortex-A7/A15 processors).
Or Aemulor, Archiemu, Jon Abbott’s work, etc.
A good way to give a better and more transparent integration of these tools inside RISC OS.

Could be cool to to control virtualized applications. App-virtualization is cool but there is no way to know what’s inside the container from the host. An ‘adjust like – task manager’ could solve this.

Let’s try

Fail.

right click could do the same for a very welcomed hypervisor mode

That’s not really the RISC OS way. There should be an icon that opens a window that gives proper management to such things, assuming such a thing as a hypervisor is actually implemented, and that’s a BIG assumption indeed.

BTW, you do know, don’t you, that TaskManager doesn’t really “manage” tasks, it is more a task tracker with some useful facilities added (like the ability to shut down the environment, for instance).

All things considered . . . my vote is still for Adjust → Configure.

I created a patch for Switcher (which Fred fixed and I refixed, it’s complicated! ;-) )

Any details on the refix, Rick?

All things considered . . . my vote is still for Adjust → Configure.

Me too.

ROOL’s rejection did mention a number of reasons why it was rejected:

• Other ways to open configure (4 were given)
• Third party applications used it
• Difficult to find for new users

They also pondered on what an Adjust click should be used for. Open a TaskWindow, perform a user configurable action?

The latter suggestion is interesting, so what if an Adjust click would run a specific Obey file. If you want it to open Configure you’d put this in it:

*Filer_Run BootResources:!Configure

To open a TaskWindow:

*TaskWindow -display

You could even use something like TestACS to get the state of modifier keys into sysvars and use:

*If Ctrl$Pressed = 0 Then Filer_Run BootResources:!Configure
*If Ctrl$Pressed = 1 Then TaskWindow -display

If the Obey is absent an Adjust click would open the TaskManager just as it does now.

Any thoughts?

RISC OS 5 has had PC Delete as standard since its launch, hasn’t it?

It used to be an option but was removed some years ago Unless I’m being totally blind!

I’m not aware it’s ever been an option in RISC OS 5: the OS has just used the standard configuration for delete since its release, with no configuration possible.

ROOL’s rejection did mention a number of reasons why it was rejected:

I think they are right. I’ve used RISC OS daily for a decade and configure is not something I need to use very often at all. Out of the menu selection Shutdown would be a better choice, as I do that at least once a day.
Fred’s idea of something configurable would be flexible, though it turns the switcher into a launcher.
There may be yet another important task/cpu type useage for adjust yet to come?
Edit:I think I would take configure off the switcher icon and replace it with F12.
The plink part of !Boot denotes application, a new user will have to find out
that you can double click on an application to run it pretty early on, childsplay really.

That’s not really the RISC OS way.

Really? :)
Click: behaviour (kernel’s tasks tracking)
Adjust: alternative behaviour (hypervisors’s tasks tracking)

Right click = Configure is of course better (I was joking), but definitively not the RISC OS ‘click-adjust’ way.

I think they are right. I’ve used RISC OS daily for a decade and configure is not something I need to use very often at all.

Except for sound management.

IMHO, and seriously this time, left click on Switcher should be for some options (sound, etc.) and right click for task tracking, since we don’t use it so often.

And for Configure, it should be (of course, not the additional modules) in ROM. And it could use more CMOS if some space is still available on it.

left click on Switcher should be for some options (sound, etc.) and right click for task tracking, since we don’t use it so often.

I have a wonderful idea:
We could have an icon for a spanner or something indicating that this was the configure thing we needed to click on.

Of course being RISC OS we need to be a bit different and use a different but distinctive icon that means it’s a RISC OS thing and also denotes an integrated action thing.

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I have it! Lets use a cog icon…

You know this is like being at work. It takes ages¹ for people to realise I’m right.

¹ The longest delay I can recall is 9 years

I have it! Lets use a cog icon…

What is this, Meccano OS?
Don’t be ridiculous! An icon that looks like a cog would never catch on…

Except for sound management.

IMHO, and seriously this time, left click on Switcher should be for some options (sound, etc.) and right click for task tracking, since we don’t use it so often.

I think if you find the need to configure sound regularly, rather than going through the configure menu, you should make a more direct launcher of !SndSetup (In Boot.RO520Hook.Res.Configure on my Iyonix) or copy that App to your work area. You could use contributions to make an Icon bar launcher and get there with a single click.
There are probably people working with network devices that would want to get to that setup, how are you going to choose?
Maybe Fred’s idea of something configurable that defaults to legacy RISC OS useage is of merit. (if you /must/ use the switcher icon)

My ’umble suggestion is…… a Nut Cracker.

And – make the right click on the Switcher configurable by means of an Obey file
(in Tasks ??)

and no-one mentioned keyboard Filer shortcuts,

I think that was an expired bounty, so obviously not that important.

Reviving things, it seems that most people were not that keen on doing any of it, because if the shortcuts really were a bounty I can’t see why it wasn’t done.
Having a quick look at the text of the bounty it merely describes ¹ what was done by third parties by reference.
Some key definitions in those third party implementations conflict with each other and already implemented shortcuts in RO5.
From what I’ve seen I’d be inclined to use the QuickFiler versions rather than the RO6 and the RO5 are limited in extent. Things like backspace as open parent vs. ^B for open parent could be as simple² as doing both.

¹ There are currently third party add-ons which can improve this to allow common operations to be performed using the keyboard (QuickFiler is one example).
and
Developers interested in this bounty should refer to the keyboard shortcuts as implemented in the RISCOS Ltd version of the OS, as well as those implemented by QuickFiler.

Things like backspace as open parent vs. ^B for open parent could be as simple as doing both.

Just my €0,02 worth – but single key shortcuts increase the potential of doing stuff by mistake. I recall on W98 when I did ^A to select everything on a messy backdrop. I wanted to Shift-Delete to erase all the shortcuts and make new ones. I pressed Enter by mistake. Windows obediently attempted to start every shortcut.
It didn’t end well.

^B good, Backspace, not so good.