RISC OS Open: Forum: Official DSi Screen

Sep 8, 2015 12:02pm

andym (447) 473 posts

It appears Raspberry Pi have released an official touchscreen for the Pi, that connects via the DSI connector.

Will this work, even just as a screen, with RISC OS? Or have ROOL been made aware of it, and have done some sneaky background work already?

Here’s hoping!

Sep 8, 2015 1:40pm

Chris Evans (457) 1614 posts

It should ‘just’ work! AIUI all the necessary drivers are in the start.elf firmware.
We’ve some on order so should know for sure soon!

Sep 9, 2015 2:36pm

Chris Evans (457) 1614 posts

It does ‘just work’ but you have to have a later version of start.elf and a RISC OS ROM than RC14. We had updated to the latest start.elf (2.9.2015) because I think that is necessary for all OS’s but I was surprised it didn’t work¹ with the RC14 RISC OS ROM. We used last night ROM build to get it to work.
It was successful on a Pi 2 and a B+. (I believe they’re are issues with pre B+ Pi’s)

¹ We got the RISC OS hour glass then pointer and could move it, but no desktop. The Pi had booted correctly as I can access it over the network just no display.

Yes, we do now have them in stock! They won’t be on the website for a few days though so please phone if you want one.

Sep 9, 2015 4:24pm

Raik (463) 2061 posts

You use the right MDF? For the Beagleboard(xM) I have a Display from Chipsee for the internal LCD port. Also 800×480@60. It has a very small range of working parameters. I have play around with (with a lot of restarts) before it was working well.

Sep 9, 2015 7:59pm

Chris Evans (457) 1614 posts

On a Pi unless you set the GPU’s screen resolution in config.txt, the GPU will set its output to the resolution of the DSI or HDMI (as reported by EDID) display connected. If your RISC OS resolution is different the GPU scales it.
As on the Pi only the X & Y parameters of an MDF are used, any sane MDF will give a display!

Sep 9, 2015 8:17pm

Raik (463) 2061 posts

This way works not with my Pi-LVCD-Display in RISC OS. With Linux works, with RISC OS not. Needs a working MDF.
I know the config.txt settings but not all working at the same way in Linux and RISC OS.
It was only a idea. Try it or not…

Sep 9, 2015 8:58pm

Chris Evans (457) 1614 posts

It was only a idea. Try it or not…

Sorry I’m not sure what you want me to try?

Sep 9, 2015 9:41pm

Raik (463) 2061 posts

Set a “static” MDF in ~PreDesk.Configure.Monitors and use something like

800 × 480 (60Hz)
startmode
mode_name:800 × 480
x_res:800
y_res:480
pixel_rate:36000
h_timings:1,214,0,800,0,68
v_timings:1,34,0,480,0,39
sync_pol:3
endmode

as MDF…

Maybe “playing around” with the “timings” help.

Sep 10, 2015 10:17am

Chris Evans (457) 1614 posts

On a Pi the timings are not passed to the GPU only the resolution so:
startmode
mode_name:800 × 480
x_res:800
y_res:480
pixel_rate:27000
h_timings:0,0,0,800,0,0
v_timings:0,0,0,480,0,0
sync_pol:3
endmode

Will work fine on a Pi!

It is possible in config.txt to pass the GPU timings but I’ve never yet found a monitor that needed that doing.

hdmi_cvt=<width> <height> <framerate> <aspect> <margins> <interlace> <rb>


width        width in pixels
height       height in pixels
framerate    framerate in Hz
aspect       aspect ratio 1=4:3, 2=14:9, 3=16:9, 4=5:4, 5=16:10, 6=15:9
margins      0=margins disabled, 1=margins enabled
interlace    0=progressive, 1=interlaced
rb           0=normal, 1=reduced blanking

Sep 10, 2015 10:38am

Raik (463) 2061 posts

The example MDF is from the Pandora

Is the DSI display now working with RISC OS?

Sep 10, 2015 12:20pm

andym (447) 473 posts

Does it still send a signal to a HDMI monitor when the DSI screen is plugged in, or is it a DSI or HDMI choice?

Sep 10, 2015 9:01pm

Chris Evans (457) 1614 posts

Is the DSI display now working with RISC OS?

Yes, as I said yesterday:

It does ‘just work’ but you have to have a later version of start.elf and a RISC OS ROM than RC14.

Photo here

Sep 10, 2015 9:07pm

Chris Evans (457) 1614 posts

Does it still send a signal to a HDMI monitor when the DSI screen is plugged in, or is it a DSI or HDMI choice?

DSI or HDMI not both at present (under RISC OS). The GPU can display on both at the same time, in fact IIRC the Pi can have: DSI, DPI, HDMI, I2C and multiple USB displays all working at the same time! I believe Jeffrey’s long term aim is for RISC OS to support multiple concurrent displays, but currently it is just the one.

Sep 17, 2015 7:21pm

Raik (463) 2061 posts

The “official version” is too deep and the jumper cable…

I use this…

… and I found the place for CJE’s RTC

Sep 17, 2015 8:06pm

Steve Pampling (1551) 8170 posts

The “official version” is too deep and the jumper cable…
I use this…

I agree Raik. When I read the article I looked at the arrangement they had done and decided that they were wasting depth by not using the orientation you’ve used.

Sep 17, 2015 8:39pm

Raik (463) 2061 posts

If anyone need the Expansionsport my orientation is not usable.
The changes are very small. I use a selfmade cable to power the RPi. A small powerbank and a selfmade case (I hope this week.)…
The RISC OS tablet needs a touch-driver

Sep 17, 2015 8:54pm

Steve Pampling (1551) 8170 posts

If anyone need the Expansionsport my orientation is not usable.

The thing is that to use the display you need to be in front so you need the port to present to you at the front too.

The logical thing to do is produce an extension lead for the port to present it just below the display with the display mounted on a 120 degree angle stand with the base under the keyboard (sort of laptop style with the port in the “hinge” area. Of course with a touch screen the stand doesn’t have the keyboard to provide stabilty and needs to be a 70 degree behind the display.

Simple bent sheet metal engineering, although two sheets fastened to a true hinge with limited swing would allow flattening for transportation.

Sep 17, 2015 9:17pm

Raik (463) 2061 posts

There are several solutions are conceivable.

I prefer a small tablet with a “swivel base”. I use a “hone down” RTC in my “sandwich”. I not need a expansionsport with this “plaything”. And network is not aviable all the time. My surfstick is working if I need a mobile connection.

Metal engineering is what I like

Sep 18, 2015 6:36pm

Raik (463) 2061 posts

Thanks to Kevin Wells for the virtual keyboard.

Sep 18, 2015 7:07pm

David Feugey (2125) 2709 posts

You’ll need to make more of these tablets :)
Do yo have an idea of battery life?

Sep 18, 2015 8:08pm

Raik (463) 2061 posts

Was “working” more than 4h without a break.
Use a external keyboard, set up my system, listen music via headphone and try overlord…
If I found a solution for all the small things are to do, maybe more than one are aviable soon ;-)
But it is not possible for me to made a touchscreen driver :-(

Sep 19, 2015 9:10am

David Feugey (2125) 2709 posts

Was “working” more than 4h without a break.

Not bad :)
Would a version without battery (but a big capacitor, to keep power when you unplugged the power cord by mistake) would be much lighter?
Would a version with a Pi A+ would be thinner?

I’m not a big fan of tablets, but it’s always interesting to see new projects around RISC OS.

Sep 21, 2015 8:37am

Raik (463) 2061 posts

Would a version with a Pi A+ would be thinner?

Not really. Maybe 1 – 2mm.

I’m not a big fan of tablets, but it’s always interesting to see new projects around RISC OS.

I’m also not a fan of tablets or SM-art-phone (SM = Sado-Maso)
At this time it is a portable display with a external portable keyboard

A beginning but they are (m)any things to do.

Sep 21, 2015 12:25pm

David Feugey (2125) 2709 posts

Cool design…

Sep 21, 2015 1:53pm

Alan Robertson (52) 420 posts

Yes. Looking very nice indeed. Very nice.

reminds me that I think we (the RISC OS Community) needs to come up with an agreed set of Touch gestures that can be used for SELECT, MENU and ADJUST.
At the moment, the Style Guide (obviously) doesn’t cover this. But looking forward we need to come up an agreed set of gestures that developers can work on.

I must admit I like the idea of swiping different directions to signify different meaning.
e.g.
Touch icon bar icon = SELECT
Touch, Hold and swipe right on icon bar icon = MENU
Touch, Hold and swipe left on icon bar icon = ADJUST

Touch icon in window = SELECT
Touch, Hold and swipe right on icon in window = MENU
Touch, Hold and swipe left on icon in window = ADJUST

I’m sure we can all think up of more different gestures, but agreeing on some of the more basic and intrinsic gestures would be a very good start I think.

Feel free to agree or disagree with my suggestions. We need to start somewhere.

Alan

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Sep 8, 2015 12:02pm andym (447) 473 posts	It appears Raspberry Pi have released an official touchscreen for the Pi, that connects via the DSI connector. Will this work, even just as a screen, with RISC OS? Or have ROOL been made aware of it, and have done some sneaky background work already? Here’s hoping!

Sep 8, 2015 1:40pm Chris Evans (457) 1614 posts	It should ‘just’ work! AIUI all the necessary drivers are in the start.elf firmware. We’ve some on order so should know for sure soon!

Sep 9, 2015 2:36pm Chris Evans (457) 1614 posts	It does ‘just work’ but you have to have a later version of start.elf and a RISC OS ROM than RC14. We had updated to the latest start.elf (2.9.2015) because I think that is necessary for all OS’s but I was surprised it didn’t work¹ with the RC14 RISC OS ROM. We used last night ROM build to get it to work. It was successful on a Pi 2 and a B+. (I believe they’re are issues with pre B+ Pi’s) ¹ We got the RISC OS hour glass then pointer and could move it, but no desktop. The Pi had booted correctly as I can access it over the network just no display. Yes, we do now have them in stock! They won’t be on the website for a few days though so please phone if you want one.

Sep 9, 2015 4:24pm Raik (463) 2061 posts	You use the right MDF? For the Beagleboard(xM) I have a Display from Chipsee for the internal LCD port. Also 800×480@60. It has a very small range of working parameters. I have play around with (with a lot of restarts) before it was working well.

Sep 9, 2015 7:59pm Chris Evans (457) 1614 posts	On a Pi unless you set the GPU’s screen resolution in config.txt, the GPU will set its output to the resolution of the DSI or HDMI (as reported by EDID) display connected. If your RISC OS resolution is different the GPU scales it. As on the Pi only the X & Y parameters of an MDF are used, any sane MDF will give a display!

Sep 9, 2015 8:17pm Raik (463) 2061 posts	This way works not with my Pi-LVCD-Display in RISC OS. With Linux works, with RISC OS not. Needs a working MDF. I know the config.txt settings but not all working at the same way in Linux and RISC OS. It was only a idea. Try it or not…

Sep 9, 2015 8:58pm Chris Evans (457) 1614 posts	It was only a idea. Try it or not… Sorry I’m not sure what you want me to try?

Sep 9, 2015 9:41pm Raik (463) 2061 posts	Set a “static” MDF in ~PreDesk.Configure.Monitors and use something like 800 × 480 (60Hz) startmode mode_name:800 × 480 x_res:800 y_res:480 pixel_rate:36000 h_timings:1,214,0,800,0,68 v_timings:1,34,0,480,0,39 sync_pol:3 endmode as MDF… Maybe “playing around” with the “timings” help.

Sep 10, 2015 10:17am Chris Evans (457) 1614 posts	On a Pi the timings are not passed to the GPU only the resolution so: startmode mode_name:800 × 480 x_res:800 y_res:480 pixel_rate:27000 h_timings:0,0,0,800,0,0 v_timings:0,0,0,480,0,0 sync_pol:3 endmode Will work fine on a Pi! It is possible in config.txt to pass the GPU timings but I’ve never yet found a monitor that needed that doing. `hdmi_cvt=<width> <height> <framerate> <aspect> <margins> <interlace> <rb>` `width width in pixels height height in pixels framerate framerate in Hz aspect aspect ratio 1=4:3, 2=14:9, 3=16:9, 4=5:4, 5=16:10, 6=15:9 margins 0=margins disabled, 1=margins enabled interlace 0=progressive, 1=interlaced rb 0=normal, 1=reduced blanking`

Sep 10, 2015 10:38am Raik (463) 2061 posts	The example MDF is from the Pandora Is the DSI display now working with RISC OS?

Sep 10, 2015 12:20pm andym (447) 473 posts	Does it still send a signal to a HDMI monitor when the DSI screen is plugged in, or is it a DSI or HDMI choice?

Sep 10, 2015 9:01pm Chris Evans (457) 1614 posts	Is the DSI display now working with RISC OS? Yes, as I said yesterday: It does ‘just work’ but you have to have a later version of start.elf and a RISC OS ROM than RC14. Photo here

Sep 10, 2015 9:07pm Chris Evans (457) 1614 posts	Does it still send a signal to a HDMI monitor when the DSI screen is plugged in, or is it a DSI or HDMI choice? DSI or HDMI not both at present (under RISC OS). The GPU can display on both at the same time, in fact IIRC the Pi can have: DSI, DPI, HDMI, I2C and multiple USB displays all working at the same time! I believe Jeffrey’s long term aim is for RISC OS to support multiple concurrent displays, but currently it is just the one.

Sep 17, 2015 7:21pm Raik (463) 2061 posts	The “official version” is too deep and the jumper cable… I use this… … and I found the place for CJE’s RTC

Sep 17, 2015 8:06pm Steve Pampling (1551) 8170 posts	The “official version” is too deep and the jumper cable… I use this… I agree Raik. When I read the article I looked at the arrangement they had done and decided that they were wasting depth by not using the orientation you’ve used.

Sep 17, 2015 8:39pm Raik (463) 2061 posts	If anyone need the Expansionsport my orientation is not usable. The changes are very small. I use a selfmade cable to power the RPi. A small powerbank and a selfmade case (I hope this week.)… The RISC OS tablet needs a touch-driver

Sep 17, 2015 8:54pm Steve Pampling (1551) 8170 posts	If anyone need the Expansionsport my orientation is not usable. The thing is that to use the display you need to be in front so you need the port to present to you at the front too. The logical thing to do is produce an extension lead for the port to present it just below the display with the display mounted on a 120 degree angle stand with the base under the keyboard (sort of laptop style with the port in the “hinge” area. Of course with a touch screen the stand doesn’t have the keyboard to provide stabilty and needs to be a 70 degree behind the display. Simple bent sheet metal engineering, although two sheets fastened to a true hinge with limited swing would allow flattening for transportation.

Sep 17, 2015 9:17pm Raik (463) 2061 posts	There are several solutions are conceivable. I prefer a small tablet with a “swivel base”. I use a “hone down” RTC in my “sandwich”. I not need a expansionsport with this “plaything”. And network is not aviable all the time. My surfstick is working if I need a mobile connection. Metal engineering is what I like

Sep 18, 2015 6:36pm Raik (463) 2061 posts	Thanks to Kevin Wells for the virtual keyboard.

Sep 18, 2015 7:07pm David Feugey (2125) 2709 posts	You’ll need to make more of these tablets :) Do yo have an idea of battery life?

Sep 18, 2015 8:08pm Raik (463) 2061 posts	Was “working” more than 4h without a break. Use a external keyboard, set up my system, listen music via headphone and try overlord… If I found a solution for all the small things are to do, maybe more than one are aviable soon ;-) But it is not possible for me to made a touchscreen driver :-(

Sep 19, 2015 9:10am David Feugey (2125) 2709 posts	Was “working” more than 4h without a break. Not bad :) Would a version without battery (but a big capacitor, to keep power when you unplugged the power cord by mistake) would be much lighter? Would a version with a Pi A+ would be thinner? I’m not a big fan of tablets, but it’s always interesting to see new projects around RISC OS.

Sep 21, 2015 8:37am Raik (463) 2061 posts	Would a version with a Pi A+ would be thinner? Not really. Maybe 1 – 2mm. I’m not a big fan of tablets, but it’s always interesting to see new projects around RISC OS. I’m also not a fan of tablets or SM-art-phone (SM = Sado-Maso) At this time it is a portable display with a external portable keyboard A beginning but they are (m)any things to do.

Sep 21, 2015 12:25pm David Feugey (2125) 2709 posts	Cool design…

Sep 21, 2015 1:53pm Alan Robertson (52) 420 posts	Yes. Looking very nice indeed. Very nice. reminds me that I think we (the RISC OS Community) needs to come up with an agreed set of Touch gestures that can be used for SELECT, MENU and ADJUST. At the moment, the Style Guide (obviously) doesn’t cover this. But looking forward we need to come up an agreed set of gestures that developers can work on. I must admit I like the idea of swiping different directions to signify different meaning. e.g. Touch icon bar icon = SELECT Touch, Hold and swipe right on icon bar icon = MENU Touch, Hold and swipe left on icon bar icon = ADJUST Touch icon in window = SELECT Touch, Hold and swipe right on icon in window = MENU Touch, Hold and swipe left on icon in window = ADJUST I’m sure we can all think up of more different gestures, but agreeing on some of the more basic and intrinsic gestures would be a very good start I think. Feel free to agree or disagree with my suggestions. We need to start somewhere. Alan