What are you doing with RISC OS?

What am I doing with RISC OS?

(1) Designing fonts that I’ll use both on RISC OS, and after I’ve converted them to PostScript, on Windoze. I’ve done this professionally (some used in journals published by Cambridge University Press) and will release the fonts for general use.

(2) Using !Draw, together with some apps I wrote myself (and very likely more I’ll write in the future), to generate drawings of various kinds. Recently, maps and other drawings to illustrate novels I’m writing ( http://clive.semmens.org.uk/Novels.html ). Again, I make these on RISC OS, but eventually move them over onto a PC.

(3) Using various apps I’ve written – mostly currently in no fit state to inflict on anyone else – that perform various transformations on various types of Windoze files. Someone else might write such a program to run on their PC, but I find it far, far easier to write such programs on a RiscPC – or, now, a Pi.

Designing fonts

Wonderful.

Some mathematicians like to be able to draw knot diagrams, and I believe there are some very sophisticated knot-plot packages. In principle you can make a knot diagram with 11 square tiles. Calling the midpoint of the four sides N,E,S,W you need:
An empty tile (0 curves),
6 tiles with 1 arc joining two midpoints,
4 tiles with 2 arcs:
NW+SE, NE+SW, NS over EW, EW over NS
Hardly enough to be called a font, I suppose.
A tiling by such tiles is well formed if ends of arcs match up properly. Then there are the intriguing problems of finding algorithms that take a well formed tiling as input and which calculate knot invariants, how many closed curves the arcs form, etc.

Any hope of a RISC OS font for hieroglyphic Luwian?

Any hope of a RISC OS font for hieroglyphic Luwian?

I think that would have to be a paid commission! :)

I’ve already done Cyrillic & Deva Nagari (Hindi) fonts, just need a bit of work to make them releasable, a couple of Latin(0,…) ones, and a partial Greek one (just the glyphs as and when we needed them – so a few to do to complete the alphabet!) and am planning to do Armenian (for Armenian friends). Possibly the most likely one to be useful to a significant number is a Modern based on high res scans of an 1880s scientific journal? (That’s where the Greek comes from too, but frustratingly not a complete alphabet, so I’ve had to design additional ones to match the style…and a few more still to go.)

Your knot diagram font would have more glyphs than WIMPSymbol ‘s six…and be dead easy to do quite nicely (I can think of two styles – one nicer, but more work than the other). Will do, the simple one anyway (I might make one tile of the fancy one, and see if anyone want to pay me to do the rest…:). I don’t think there are any Unicode or PostScript names for them though.

Well done Clive! Took me more than an hour to convert two simplified Chinese characters to Draw ;-)

The easiest way is probably to use the Electronic Font Foundry’s software ‘True Type Font Translator’ which will build a RISC OS font from a type 1 or type 3 windows font. It is easy to use: I have build a family of ‘Arial’ fonts in an hour or so. It allows you to set up the encodings table as you want it.

It’s the opposite direction I’m interested in! And my XP1FontEd does it…

I’m not copying fonts, I’m designing fonts, or in some cases copying OLD fonts that only exist on paper. I’m mainly designing them for use on PCs and Macs, but I prefer RISCOS for the design process. I could design them using FontForge on the PC, but I like FontEd better, and where I perceive shortcomings in FontEd, it’s relatively easy to write extra apps to fill the gaps.

Perhaps a conversation with Castle/ROOL would have it available in the open repository.

Did anything come of this?

[re. Opening up ABC so it can be modernised in line with contemporary BASIC]

Interesting and varied discussion!

I am a new user to RISC OS and so far I think it is fantastic. I do have a lot to learn but this is a short synopsis of what I have planned at the moment

Firstly what I want to do with RISC OS:
1. Use it as the basis for my PiCopter (I have a Raspberry Pi and a burning desire to make it fly)
2. Investigate the creation of a Pi-based Inertial Navigation System
3. Use it to write things – I plan on using it as my main word processor but I would also like to aid in the creation of system documentation (I write fiction and technical documents).
4. Use it as my main operating system

And what I would like to do to RISC OS:
1. Port Synergy so I can share my keyboard/mouse with my Linux computer
2. Make the GUI look a bit more modern
3. Help in the development of a web-browser (NetSurf? Firefox?)
4. Improvements to the built-in filer (not sure if I’m just too used to other systems, but I find the fact that every time you open a folder it opens in a new window to be quite irritating so propose to have some kind of split pane filer program…if it doesn’t exist already?)

Use it to write things – I plan on using it as my main word processor but I would also like to aid in the creation of system documentation (I write fiction and technical documents).

You need TechWriter

Improvements to the built-in filer (not sure if I’m just too used to other systems, but I find the fact that every time you open a folder it opens in a new window to be quite irritating

Try using the RH button instead (Adjust button). Also use that closing windows to ascend the hierarchy where you wish to. Just something you didn’t know that’s very useful. The filer is one of RISC OS’s really strong points!

Make the GUI look a bit more modern

What exactly do you wish to do?

Regarding modernising the theme take a look at these threads:

https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums/2/topics/209
https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums/2/topics/2735

Try using the RH button instead (Adjust button). Also use that closing windows to ascend the hierarchy where you wish to. Just something you didn’t know that’s very useful. The filer is one of RISC OS’s really strong points!

And if you want to go back to the previous directory click the ‘x’ using Adjust as well.

Use it to write things – I plan on using it as my main word processor but I would also like to aid in the creation of system documentation (I write fiction and technical documents).

I’d echo John’s comment. Try TechWriter. Superb for technical document creation. I’ve used it to write the source material for all my books, reports, papers, and most webpages, for over 2o years. Nothing else comes close for documents where you want to include equations, etc.

4. Improvements to the built-in filer (not sure if I’m just too used to other systems, but I find the fact that every time you open a folder it opens in a new window to be quite irritating so propose to have some kind of split pane filer program…if it doesn’t exist already?)

As Mike has pointed out, check first the actions of other mouse/key combinations for filer windows. I think it likely that one of the reasons many of us like RO is the current filer window behaviour and to avoid the ‘split panes’ ‘trees’ etc that IMHO are a PITA with the filers on other OSs. 8-]

Jim

I am a new user to RISC OS and so far I think it is fantastic. I do have a lot to learn but this is a short synopsis of what I have planned at the moment

Hi Glen, welcome to the wonderful world of RISC OS!

I can certainly endorse the comments other posters have made above (especially TechWriter – one of the most polished and professional RO apps out there).

As far as browsers go, I assume you are aware of the (now ancient) port of Firefox 2 from 2009. It was an impressive piece of work to get it working at all but sadly I found it rather unstable, and Peter Naulls who did the port has left the RISC OS scene. If you can polish it up and upgrade it through 33 versions, I’m sure you’ll find an appreciative crowd. :)

The Netsurf team would definitely appreciate a hand. I think most of the developers are in Linux-land now and there is only one person working on keeping the RISC OS side up to date.

Happy coding! Look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Hello everyone and thank you for the quick responses – its nice to feel included so early on!

After having read your replies I have booted back into the Pi at work and it turns out that my desire to update the look of the OS was actually a subconscious desire to get a better monitor – now I am quite happy with the way it looks (my old screen was making it look a bit weird for some reason).

Techwriter is very high up on my list of things to buy – my plan is to get the NutPi SD card first and use Writer+ that is bundled with that as an interim and then put some money towards a full version of Techwriter. I feel that this would be better in the long run as well because I have plans to use two different SD card images (one for development/experiments & one for documentation) so having both Writer+ and Techwriter licences would be ideal.

Just with regards to development options I have two basic (pun absolutely intended) questions:

1. For new applications is it preferable to use BASIC or something else (I have only ever used AmigaBASIC but have forgotten all of it now). Typically at work I use C++ or C but have also used LISP and Perl. I’m not averse to learning or using something new though, in fact I quite like the idea of learning new things, but I would want to start off on the right track.

2. Is anyone actively intending on updating the PRMs? How much of these can be reliably applied to RISC OS 5?

Finally, thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou for pointing out how to properly use the mouse in Filer – I had no idea a mouse could be employed in such a useful and intuitive way! I’m just off now to the physio to bring my other digits out of atrophy…

For new applications is it preferable to use BASIC or something else (I have only ever used AmigaBASIC but have forgotten all of it now). Typically at work I use C++ or C but have also used LISP and Perl.

Both GCC and an ‘Acorn, now ROOL’ compiler package for C/C++ are available, along with various libraries, etc. I tend to use the ‘ROOL’ C compiler for RO although I’m now used to GCC for Linux. BBC BASIC is pretty good, though, and does also provide a nice assembler. So I’d suggest trying both and deciding which suits you best.

Is anyone actively intending on updating the PRMs? How much of these can be reliably applied to RISC OS 5?

Various people have written partial new bits of documentation. But I’m not sure if there will be a ‘new PRM’ that brings it all into one official source. Things are also evolving under our feet. Good news, but doesn’t help those chasing events to get documents up to date! :-)

Jim

For new applications is it preferable to use BASIC or something else?

There’s a lot of scorn poured on BASIC in some parts of the RISC OS world. That’s unjustified in my view. It’s a good language and can be used, with a little care, to develop decent desktop applications. Take a look at !Maestro, !Alarm and !SciCalc (all pure BASIC applications) for an example of what can be done. The 255-character limit for strings is annoying, and the memory management is lacking, but these issues, and most others, can be worked around.

Having said that, C is probably the most popular language for RISC OS development these days, and most new stuff uses it. There is the commercial Desktop Development Environment but GCC is widely used. The ROOL compiler is bundled with a set of RISC OS libraries. There is also the freely available OSLib which provides almost complete coverage of the RISC OS API.

The big advantage of C of course is easy porting of code from other systems. There are ports of various cross-platform libraries available at http://www.riscos.info/packages/ although I’m not sure how up to date they are.

If you want to build RISC OS itself, you will need the ROOL compiler, although I think some individual components can be built with GCC.

Is anyone actively intending on updating the PRMs? How much of these can be reliably applied to RISC OS 5?

Things are a bit all over the place at the moment. You definitely need to read volumes 1-4 (Written for RISC OS 3.1) in conjunction with volume 5a, which documents changes made to deal with the RiscPC architecture (RISC OS 3.5/3.6), and then also consider http://iyonix.com/32bit/ which covers the change to 32-bit and RISC OS 5. That, in conjunction with the docs elsewhere on this site, should cover most of what you need.

As well as the PRMs, the StrongHelp OS manual is really useful. It’s not as detailed, and is sometimes inaccurate, but in some areas it can be more up to date as it may cover RISC OS 5, RISC OS 6 etc. in a single manual.

I’m struggling to find its current home page, however, as it has moved around and I am not sure who the current maintainer is. See http://www.riscos.info/downloads/stronghelp/manuals/
for a wide selection of manuals. You’d want os336.zip which I see was uploaded in April 2014 and is more recent than the version I was using!

See also news item at http://www.riscos.info/index.php?title=Special:AWCforum&action=st/id302/Updated_StrongHelp_
StrongHelp manuals are like hypertext, but read with a special application called StrongHelp, rather than a web browser. Like the Filer, right-click on the close icon for a manual page will open the parent page, and right-click on a hyperlink will close the parent page.

The real strength of the StrongHelp OS manual is the integration with editors like Zap and StrongEd. I use Zap, but as a new user I would advise you to learn StrongEd as it is still actively maintained. In Zap, if you are editing C or BASIC and Alt-double-click on a SWI name, like OS_Find, then the StrongHelp page for the SWI will open, like magic. There is a similar way of doing it from StrongEd but I don’t know whether you hold Alt or somethiong else. It’s really useful as the StrongHelp OS manual tells you the essentials of the registers for calling any SWI.

Another really nice feature of StrongEd and Zap is “throwback”. If you compile C with GCC or the ROOL compiler, the compiler can be told to report compilation errors via a throwback window. This is handled by StrongEd and Zap and shows the filename, line number, and error report. A double-click on the error opens the source file in the editor at the correct line.

These features are about as near as RISC OS gets to an integrated development environment, but in the RISC OS case the tradition is for the various components to be independent and talk to each other via open protocols.

Hope that helps.

I’m struggling to find its current home page, however, as it has moved around and I am not sure who the current maintainer is.

StrongHelp can be found here and it looks like I’m the maintainer now.

You’d want os336.zip which I see was uploaded in April 2014 and is more recent than the version I was using!

You’d also want, at least, the Wimp manual, and the Toolbox one if you use that.

I use Zap, but as a new user I would advise you to learn StrongEd as it is still actively maintained.

It sure is, the next bugfix release for StrongED 4.69 should be out later today, and the latest alpha release (4.70a8) isn’t too far off either.

There is a similar way of doing it from StrongEd but I don’t know whether you hold Alt or somethiong else.

In StrongED you place the caret in the SWI name and press F1.

Another really nice feature of StrongEd and Zap is “throwback”. If you compile C with GCC or the ROOL compiler, [..]

Throwback can also be used with BASIC, and by anything that wishes to provide the user with a ‘link’ to a result in a file somewhere (TextSeek, grep).

Throwback can also be used with BASIC

Not to forget Reporter’s *ReportError T.

Also, Basalt adds the keyword THROW to BASIC for the same purpose, and it does deal with libraries, which Reporter does not.

the StrongHelp OS manual is really useful

It is indeed and thanks Matthew for the tips!

I would advise you to learn StrongEd

Roger; wilco. In the absence of Emacs it will have to do! :—P

You’d also want, at least, the Wimp manual, and the Toolbox one if you use that.
bq. It sure is, the next bugfix release for StrongED 4.69 should be out later today

Thanks Fred, I have downloaded StrongHelp and the latest StrongEd.

Things will probably go quiet form my end for a while as I get to grips with the system but I’ll shout up if I get stuck anywhere!

Now…what is everyone else planning on doing with/to RISC OS I wonder….?

I would advise you to learn StrongEd

Roger; wilco. In the absence of Emacs it will have to do!

Zap is the more Emacs-y of the two editors; it does work on modern hardware (the ARMv7 version seems more stable than the original 32-bit one ever was), but as has been pointed out, StrongED has an active developer and not just people who patch it to fix hardware problems.

Some may remember the Drobe article (it was Slashdotted and brought the Drobe site down) from nearly 10 years ago, that documents my heating control system. A few weeks ago, I replaced the A3010 with a Raspberry Pi and an interface board (I decided to keep the interface compatible with the A3010).

This weekend, I added a web interface to it, so now I can control the system from anywhere I like but requiring nothing more than a browser.

It works with Netsurf too.

I was actually just curious. I had my eye on RISC OS for a while but since it isn’t on x86 hardware I couldn’t just try it like I could with other operating systems. Eventually I found the Pi and It was too good to pass up.

I don’t do anything technical with the operating systems I use, It can be said that I have them for the sake of having them. I generally just do basic stuff with them, usually writing or consuming media.

I had my eye on RISC OS for a while but since it isn’t on x86 hardware I couldn’t just try it like I could with other operating systems.

Without wanting to distract you from using real hardware, there is an emulator for the old RPC machine RPCEmu which will run the latest release of the OS.

Instructions are here
Choose the host OS and follow the appropriate document.
Note: The RPCEmu does have similar instructions but among other things some links are out of date.

I installed Risc OS on my Raspberry Pi B+ because Bruce Smith’s book “Raspberry Pi Assembly Language Raspbian Beginners” said that to learn more about ARM assembly I should try Risc OS. I’ve ordered his beginner’s book for Risc OS. There will be much overlap with the Raspbian book, but there are Risc OS specific things there I need to learn. After I finish the beginner’s book I’ll probably buy his advanced book for Risc OS.

Risc OS is a major departure for me. I know Windows and I can hold my own in Linux, but Risc OS is so different. I’m slowly finding my way around it and have used these forums to solve a couple problems. I’m sure I’ll be back to solve more.

If your goal is to learn ARM assembler then using RISC OS is probably a good idea; it does tend to “get out of the way” and let you focus on your code.

On the other hand, if your goal is to make RISC OS apps, then I defer to the Style Guide:

We strongly urge you to program using C. We believe that you’ll find large applications easier to maintain if they’re written in C rather than (say) BASIC or Assembler.

Given the issues that the OS has had in the past (32-bit, ARMv7) and potentially future (ZPR), there are real advantages with being able to “delegate” most of the compatibility work to the compiler.

But as I noted in the first paragraph, if your goal is specifically assembler, then go ahead :)