TCP/IP stack: A second great networking opportunity

You mean like in the !ARMalyser Docs.C32ModuleTemplate/s file?

There’s a magic invisibility cloak on that

You mean like in the !ARMalyser Docs.C32ModuleTemplate/s file?

There’s a magic invisibility cloak on that

Utter rubbish.

There is no dot between !Armalyser and Docs. The file is present as described.

There is no dot between !Armalyser and Docs. The file is present as described

Clearly, the humour of people not actually reading documents has falling in some cyber gap.

The obvious inference from Druck is that a “Docs” directory for !Armalyser exists, with useful info, that people might want to read… maybe.

Clearly, the humour of people not actually reading documents has falling in some cyber gap.

It is not a matter of humour, but smart alec forum noise.

End of.

There is clearly some confusion around the phasing out of Internet 4 support. To clarify, our plan is to remove support for a library “build switch” called COMPAT_INET4 which some developers may have opted to use. We do not anticipate much disruption to existing RISC OS software as most will be using the Internet 5 module (introduced by Acorn with RISC OS 3.7) already, but any software still using the older system calls will not be able to benefit from new functionality in the future. It’s true that when existing software is next recompiled it will need some minor adjustments to get ready – we have published a technical note giving much more detail to developers.

Within RISC OS itself, the changes to remove COMPAT_INET4 are already complete and will begin appearing in the nightly (beta) builds in the coming weeks. Aside from the small chance of bugs being introduced(!) we don’t expect anyone to notice the difference.

Next, we will release updated ports of the disc-based command line networking tools. In support of the disc-based tool updates, developers will also be provided an intermediate version of the network library. Aside from that, we don’t plan to introduce any more changes in this area before the next stable release of RISC OS.

Following the 5.30 release, the new development version, RISC OS 5.31, will introduce “zero copy” (aka faster!) transfers and the remainder of the network library updates, refreshed Configure plug-in, plus a new Internet module. While this may sound unimpressive, starting from sound foundations with a contemporary version of FreeBSD will be the basis on which Wi-Fi and IPv6 are founded.

To everybody who is involved with IPv6 . . . please don’t use EUI-64 (or basing any part of the address on the device’s MAC).
https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/22/legacy_ipv6_addressing_standard_enables/

I have read the technical note, I don’t use the COMPAT_INET4 switch but it made me realize that I link the wrong library.

Also the doc is slightly incorrect. For sockaddr_in the new member is sin_len.

Thanks André.

Thanks for the details and the note Steve.

Within RISC OS itself, the changes to remove COMPAT_INET4 are already complete

I just downloaded the nightly HardDisc4 source tarball, and saw that the HTTP module’s makefile still defines COMPAT_INET4.

and will begin appearing in the nightly (beta) builds in the coming weeks.

Think this is the overiding part of the statement.

So we may need to wait a little longer to see the chnages flow through.

we have published a technical note giving much more detail to developers.

which says …

To access any new features you’ll need to change to use the Internet 5 style SWIs introduced with RISC OS 3.7.

… but where can I find any documentation of the Internet 5 SWIs? They seem to have been around since about 1996, but how do we know what they are?

I have checked PRM 5a (1992, so too old), and the ROOL Wiki (no Internet SWI information).
Where should I be looking?

where can I find any documentation of the Internet 5 SWIs? They seem to have been around since about 1996, but how do we know what they are?

The InetSocket StrongHelp manual has documentation for (some of) them, I don’t know where they got that from, or how definitive it is though.

I have the Internet SWIs manual v1.07 … but I can find no reference to Internet 5 in there. Which are the SWIs you are referring to?

where can I find any documentation of the Internet 5 SWIs? They seem to have been around since about 1996, but how do we know what they are?

The TCPIPLibs LibraryDoc is presumably the definitive reference; there’s a SWIs section near the bottom that lists the BSD socket functions that the new SWIs map to. However it doesn’t list the details of the BSD socket functions themselves, so you’ll have to look those up in the TCPIPLibs sources or a suitable BSD manual.

AFAIK the InetSocket manual only lists two of the new SWIs (Sysctl and Version), which makes it pretty useless as an Internet 5 reference.

Gosh – thanks Jeffrey for the LibDoc reference. But I think your reply explains why Inet5 has been so little used, as the documentation is so obscure. I will try to work my way through that 85KB of text.

Is there anywhere a simple explanation of what Internet 4 and 5 are, and their major differences? Everything seems to assume that the reader knows this.

we don’t expect anyone to notice the difference.

I hope not, as it seems some fundamental ground work is missing…

However it doesn’t list the details of the BSD socket functions themselves, so you’ll have to look those up in the TCPIPLibs sources or a suitable BSD manual.

Which can be found in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard”?

Which can be found in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard”?

Well, luckily, there are still plenty of books on BSD (both 4.3 and 4.4).

• One that is also available in Kindle (and other reading devices) format is “Design and Implementation of the 4.4 BSD Operating System” and on chapter 12 talks everything Network Communication while on Chapter 11 provides all the info on the Sockets abstraction.
• Obviously there is the on-line FreeBSD documentation (but this is up-to-date and so there might be some differences compared to the old sockets implementation), anyway here: https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/developers-handbook/sockets/
• NetBSD Socket programming Wiki: https://wiki.netbsd.org/examples/socket_programming/
• Keil documentation of the BSD Sockets: https://www.keil.com/pack/doc/mw6/Network/html/using_network_sockets_bsd.html

There is more, and we may actually do some practical example specific for RISC OS or some tutorial. I am quite busy at the moment, but if no one has time to do it, I’ll add it to me TO DO list of posts to write for RISC OS on my blog.

Hope this helps.

It would also be interesting to have a little tutorial on own make your programs IP V4/V6 agnostic, assuming that’s possible.

Is there anywhere a simple explanation of what Internet 4 and 5 are, and their major differences? Everything seems to assume that the reader knows this.

The LibraryDoc that Jeffrey pointed to summarises this fairly neatly as follows:

The Internet 5 module, and these libraries, are based on a 4.4BSD Unix derivative, rather than the 4.3BSD Unix of Internet 4 and earlier. As a result a few structures have changed. Notably a struct sockaddr now has a length field, and the msghdr structure has changed.

It’s a distinction that only matters if you are writing programs using socket functions, and if you’re writing them in C you don’t need to worry too much about the underlying SWIs. The Technical Note explains which header files are affected, and also that the older SWIs will be emulated for backwards compatibility, which is why people shouldn’t notice a difference when running existing software.

@James: Thanks for the clarification that Internet 4 is BSD 4.3, and Internet 5 is BSD 4.4. I had not latched on to that significance.

Confusingly, I could not find ‘Internet 4’ in PRM5a, but I assume that Internet 4 & 5 are referring to the major version numbers of the Internet module.

Is it just the SWIs Socket_Accept, Recvfrom, Recvmsg, Sendmsg, Getpeername and Getsockname that are the ‘old Internet 4’ SWIs?
These match the ones listed as being emulated in the Technical Note. They are documented in PRM 5a, as supplied with the DDE, but not in the ROOL Wiki.

Are the only ‘new Internet 5’ SWIs the same six names with a suffix of ‘_1’ ? I have not been able to find any reference to these in any RISC OS documentation, even though they have apparently been available since RO3.7 in 1996.

Thanks for the the various clarifications: my fog is slowly lifting.