Pi 3B USB reading with Risc OS 5.24

Hi,
Newbie greetings to the Forum. I am a returnee to Risc OS after 12+ years. Borrowed a Pi 3B and flashed it with v5.24 :) When I insert a USB memory stick, it mounts on the desktop, but I’m unable to access it.

Additionally I’m currently displaying this on a TV @1080p, but only 5 modes are showing. It’s been a long long time since I used MakeModes, any clues?

TIA, Bob

When I insert a USB memory stick, it mounts on the desktop, but I’m unable to access it.

How has the USB stick been formatted? Your best bet is to use FAT32: RISC OS won’t recognise other formats such as exFAT or NTFS.

I’m currently displaying this on a TV @1080p, but only 5 modes are showing.

Grab yourself a copy of AnyMode – that should give you a few more modes to play with :-)

I reformatted the stick (SanDisk Cruzer Blade, 32GB) but format is not recognised.
I’ve now tried a 16GB MicroSD via the USB, and again same result ‘has it been formatted?’

How are you formatting the memory sticks? If FAT you may need Fat32FS

I’m currently displaying this on a TV @1080p, but only 5 modes are showing.

Assuming you are using an HDMI lead to connect the TV then the modes shown should be determined by the EDID data from the TV. If you are getting 1920×1080 as default then I would not worry about it unless you have a partitular mode requirement.

I reformatted the stick (SanDisk Cruzer Blade, 32GB)

Which formatter did you use?

Have you tried the !HForm program in $.Apps.Caution? That will give you a filecore formatted disc.

Sorry Colin, your post wasn’t there when I started typing.

Thanks for the feedback.
I watched the WiFi Sheep tutorials on YouTube.
Downloaded 5.27 from RiscOS Direct, and flashed that to the MicroSD.

New Version of RiscOS running. USB stick reads ok.
New problem is an over-zoomed image on the TV, ie. 20mm of image missing all around.

Either

Configure the tv connection to ‘PC’ mode on the tv – probably the best option as it will get rid of processing artifacts like sharpening.

or

edit !Boot.Loader.config/txt and add

disable_overscan=0
overscan_left=24
overscan_right=24
overscan_top=24
overscan_bottom=24

it may already have these entries with

disable_overscan=1

in which case you’ll just need to change them. You may need to mess about with the overscan values to suit your tv.

You may have an entry like

[pi4]

in the config/txt file. Your changes need to go before the first line like this. Entries after lines like this are device specific.

Colin, thanks. I started with some of those last night 👍🏻

Need to think what I’ve done? It os won’t Boot, hanging on a ‘Task Manager’ error. Doh!

I recall on the RiscPC there was various startups, to edit the boot sequence eg. Del start.
Tried on this RPi, they don’t work, it seems different?

You should be able to edit the config.txt file on a PC if you have an SDcard reader.

There is room in the Loader directory to keep a number of backup copies for the config.txt file.

Using a new SDcard with just the Loader files will allow to boot without running the RiscOS boot sequence. You will get boot device error, but you can then re-insert the full SDcard and see the RiscOS files without having tried to run them.

You can swap SD cards just like you used to swap floppy discs. It will ask you for which one it wants.

It seems different.

It is. The Pi has no onboard ROM or CMOS.

The ROM is emulated by Pi firmware. The CMOS is emulated by RiscOS software.

Both are actually files stored alongside the config.txt file in the Boot.Loader ‘directory’ which is, in turn, a small fixed sectors DOS partition on the otherwise Filecore formatted SDcard.

This is an opportunity for me to get back on my hobby horse. If you had a hard disc on your Risc PC then you may already know how to tell RiscOS which device to boot from (Floppy Disc or Hard Disc). You can do the same on a Pi and tell RiscOS to boot from an SDD or even HDD.
*status - to see what the current settings are.
*configure filesystem - to set the filesystem to use, normally SDFS. But can be SCSI.
*configure scsifsdrive - to set which HDD/SDD drive to look for the !Boot sequence files

Note that a real spinning rust HDD will need additional power, but an SDD can be connected by USB (you will need to add the line max_usb_current=1 to your config.txt file.

you will need to add the line usb_max_power 1 to your config.txt.

Can I just check the syntax? It is meant to be
usb_max_power 1, not
usb_max_power=1
?

(Which formatter did you use?)

Disk Utility on the Mac.. But RiscOS Direct’s Pi image worked fine.

I have been able to access & edit the T/TXT files. Annoyingly I’ve not been able to stop the hang during Boot.
Using BalenaEtcher I’m currently re-flashing another MicroSD card with the RiscOS Direct image. Fingers crossed ;-)

Colin: in the CONFIG/TXT file setting ‘disable_overscan=0‘ has sorted the ‘zoomed’ screen size, albeit shrunk it a bit much.
Adding the 4 overscan instructions shrunk the screen further, in the wrong direction LOL

Q. Why is there 2 flavours of RiscOS to use with the Pi? ie. RiscOS Direct and from RiscOS Open?
For me, I’ve tried both. Having encountered many issues with the ‘Open’ version, Direct’s version suits me and my Pi 3B better.

Bob, I strongly recommend not messing with disable_overscan if you can help it. You’re effectively mis-scaling twice to correct a problem that shouldn’t exist in the first place (ie. your TV scales up, then the pi scales down, both introducing errors).

Instead, press the menu button on your TV remote, navigate to the Picture settings, (possibly “advanced” sub-section) and look for “Picture Size” or “Aspect Ratio”.

In there, you want a setting which has a number of names – “1:1”, “Just Scan”, “Fit” (sometimes), “Original”, “Source”, “PC”. Each manufacturer is annoyingly different in its wording. Anyway, that will remove the overscan (missing picture) and give a much crisper picture.

It is just possible that your TV won’t allow overscan to be disabled (implies a pretty awful TV). In this case, you should use the option in the CONFIG/TXT whilst quietly swearing at whoever sold you the TV in the first place. (Hopefully not me!).

RISC OS Direct is a new initiative to create a “best experience” for new Pi users. It is build from the same base code as RISC OS Open, so is not intended to be “competition” but rather a more comprehensive, expanded experience. It has been submitted to ROOL to appear here, as I think it would be a useful addition to the Pi downloads, but so far hasn’t appeared. I think really it is a case of available time for those building/maintaining releases.

Anyway, I’m just glad you were able to get things up and running nicely :)

Can I just check the syntax? It is meant to be? ….

Yes, Thanks George. I had it wrong. I have now edited the post to put it right.

Q. Why are there 2 flavours of RiscOS to use with the Pi?

They are not really different flavours. They are just at different stages of development (and Direct has some goodies included (a more comprehensive, expanded experience).

Have a read through pages on this forum and main site about odd and even build build numbers and you will see that the RiscOS Direct build is strictly a development build, whereas the SDcard you can purchase here contains the most recent stable build. We are all eagerly awaiting the next even numbered stable build which I understand we should have been getting at the Wakefield 2020 Show if it were not for this pesky virus we keep hearing about.

I think really it is a case of available time for those building/maintaining releases.

And perhaps they have just seen their workload increase.

Bob, I strongly recommend not messing with disable_overscan if you can help it. You’re effectively mis-scaling twice to correct a problem that shouldn’t exist in the first place (ie. your TV scales up, then the pi scales down, both introducing errors).

Andrew, thank you I’ll have a close look at that. TV’s a Panasonic Plasma and should be alright. I’ll delve into its menus later.

I’ve dug out my old RPCs 7 in process of renovating them (saving from CMOS battery failure), with a view to network one of them to use some of my previously commercial Risc OS software.
I’m really keen to find out more about adaptions of the Pi, including PiPOD, and the PiSSDup adapter, and it’s use with an mSATA SSD. Do any other Risc OS companies make Pi related hardware?
I got this far without mentioning WiFi, USB3 and the Pi4 😂

Andrew & John, thanks guys for filling me in with the Risc OS background, I’d hope the Raspberry Pi brings the opportunity to once again increase the user-base of a great OS.

the RiscOS Direct build is strictly a development build, whereas the SDcard you can purchase here contains the most recent stable build

Given that dev versions become stable builds which then become dev versions (and the dev version may well fix bugs present in the stable builds)….I’d say that the distinction is somewhat blurred.

Yes, things may be cocked up in dev builds (like recently the Wimp’s cut’n’paste in icons thing) but when this is brought to light the issues get fixed pretty quickly. One can say that stable releases won’t have dev issues, but that doesn’t mean they’re magically bug free. It’s just different bugs.

The trick is to pick a good stable build that doesn’t have any obvious show stoppers, and consider it “good enough for use”. Chances are, it is.

BTW, if Direct is using a dev release, does it list all the modules at start, or did they build a version with that stuff turned off?

I got this far without mentioning WiFi, USB3 and the Pi4

Whoops… ;-)

WiFi, might be coming “sometime soon”, but the aging RISC OS networking stack will need a number of modifications to cope with the specific behaviour of WiFi (you might disconnect, and then reconnect to an entirely different AP with a different IP address, and gateway – it’ll need to transparently cope with that). It’ll also need to cope with searching for and connecting, and also potentially to the “you can’t access anything until you agree to the terms” stuff that you get with many public APs.

USB3? That’s probably Pi4 specific thing. I’m sure it’ll come along in time as the Pi4 build matures. As for everything else in the Pi family, not worth losing sleep over it. The Broadcom chip (prior to Pi4) only has one USB port. Everything (including networking) is a hub wired to that one port. So no matter what you have plugged in to ethernet and the four USB ports, it will never be able to run faster than a single USB2 port. Because that’s essentially what it is.

PS: You forgot Bluetooth. :-p

WiFi, might be coming “sometime soon”

I can understand the complications of handshaking on Public WiFi’s. As a personal thing, for Risc OS I’d only want WiFi indoors on same hub / router.

Specifically for the Pi, would Elesar’s WiFi Hat do a job? What’s its Pro’s and Con’s?

USB3? That’s probably a Pi4 specific thing

Yes it is. Currently my only don’t USB3 devices are external HDD’s.

…it will never be able to run faster than a single USB2 port. Because that’s essentially what it is.

My curiosity stems from looking at the PiSSDup SSD and realising it runs with the USB2 bottleneck. Having installed an SSD in my iMac, I’ve seen 1st hand the performance boost it gives. I suppose Pi5 may get a SATA interface 😂

I can’t speak for the WiFi hat. For my use, I have a Vonets VAP11G hooked to a little Netgear 5 port switch. It was intended for the Pi, but now the Pi and PC are on it (because the serial widget that I use to program my ESP32 stiffs the machine if it is connected at the same time as the USB WiFi dongle – lovely, huh?). I can also add other Pi or the Beagle just by plugging ‘em in and sharing the Vonets’ bandwidth.
It’s a cheap’n’cheerful setup.

Currently my only don’t USB3 devices are external HDD’s.

Mine too. I have two (or is it three?) USB3 harddiscs. Pity I don’t have anything USB3 to make use of them. My desktop PC has plenty of USB sockets (2 on the front, about 5 around back), and there are three on the netbook. But not a one of those ports is USB3.
Oh well. :-)

Specifically for the Pi, would Elesar’s WiFi Hat do a job?

I have the WiFiHAT connected to a Pi3 and it works very well.

What’s its Pro’s and Con’s?

Well, the obvious Pro is, you get wireless connectivity! And it is pretty stable IME, and not too complex to set up – the instructions are clear and simple and the supplied EtherWILC s/ware installation is straightforward. The Cons: I find the Pi runs a bit warmer, though not problematically so; the main downside is speed: I get c.17-19MB/sec cabled, bursting to the low twenties, while the best I’ve seen on the HAT is 9.2, and anything between 5 and 7.5 is typical. It is quite usable at these speeds however – things just take a little longer. My router is the standard BT Infinity one, and it’s about 4 metres away on the floor below. HTH.
PS: Elesar support is excellent IME.

Bob – if you have any trouble with your Pana Plasma, let me know – I use a Pana GT30 myself.

Specifically for the Pi, would Elesar’s WiFi Hat do a job?

I was demonstrating the Pi 4 running RISC OS on hotel WiFi at the SW show using the Elesar WiFi Hat with real time clock and the Iris browser (a real time clock is required so that SSL works correctly and a decent browser to handle ‘logging in’ to the hotel system).

So, yes.

I have a Vonets VAP11G hooked to a little Netgear 5 port switch

I’ve seen the Vonets on Amazon. 300mbps for about £16 compared to £50+ for Elesars. Quicker and 1/3 the price… Hmmm