They launched Pi Pico without RiscOS?

This post will may expose my inexperience in several areas but, it seems to me that having the Pi Foundation and RiscOS developers working together could potentially be a Win Win relationship.

I’m not saying that RiscOS will propel the Pi Pico to stardom, however, having a native OS on a Pi product at launch gives them at least one more bulleted item on the feature list and, it wouldn’t hurt a campaigne for more RiscOS exposure.

Pi Pico is based on a very resource-restricted Cortex-M0 core. RISC OS will probably never run on it (missing MMU and all that, and basically Thumb-only). Pi Pico is really completely different to all other RPi models, it is an Arduino-like offer.

Members of Stardot forum have already discussed the various problems: https://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=21556

The fun will start when people mix up Pi Pico with RISC OS Pico.

It’s probably got enough resources to run a simple BBC Micro emulator, maybe with the other core acting as second processor. :)

Yeah, there’s been some good progress on getting b-em running on the Pico.

https://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=305236#p305236

Yeah, there’s been some good progress on getting b-em running on the Pico.

https://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=305236#p305236

The logical thing therefore would be to put a helpful link somewhere around the ROOL site that points at the work they’ve done. Along with a note that having a full spec Pi gives you the chance to learn how in a more appealing environment…

put a helpful link somewhere around the ROOL site

The site has some really good beginner information available and I urge those responsible to keep up the good work.
Any information on the site directed at ‘newcomers’ with guidance to experiencing RiscOS is an excellent idea!

I’m aware this new microcontroller is not a computer or an SBC and, that it is far too resource restricted to truly exploit the joy of RiscOS. Although, I have connected a PS2 keyboard and SD card to an Atmel328 and wrote a word processor for it.
My point is the missing relationship with the Pi foundation and RiscOS. With enough ‘interest’ and coaxing, the Pi foundation just may lean their creative juices toward the next great little home computer product.
The 400 suffers resource restrictions as well but, with a focus on a native OS it could be “Made for the kids but strong enough for mom and dad”. My first computer was a Sinclair ZX81, I learned Basic, Z80 Machine Language, computer science 101 and it spurred me into academics related to STEM.

Just saying. Good news could be just a phone call away.

Given that one (or more?) of the ROOL directors have been very closely involved with Pi Foundation (and the Uptons) over the years, I think it is safe to say that the problem isn’t a lack of knowledge/awareness on the Foundation’s part, nor a lack of communication from ROOL. At this point, it is fairly safe to assume that RISC OS is something that is tolerated rather than encouraged – their focus is 110% on what they now call Raspberry Pi OS (that name/brand is important/significant).

Put simply, no other OS (in some ways, not even Windows – think politics!) offers the Foundation the same opportunities in terms of market penetration. RISC OS’ software-base isn’t large enough to compete, and their investment in Pi OS is so large at this point that I think supporting anything else really isn’t on the cards. Additionally, Ebon has stated publicly that future Pi platforms may abandon ARM altogether, which requires a much more architecture-agnostic OS than RISC OS, unfortunately.

Nevertheless, it is no reason to stop trying. I believe ROOL did manage to get the latest Pi400-supporting OS build to appear in the list for the Pi disc imager, which is a significant achievement in and of itself :)

Thank you, it is indeed fortuitous that my inquiry prompted an eloquent, informative and enlightening response.

I have run Pi OS but only briefly. When comapred with ‘some’ linux distributions, I found it to be lacking. Perhaps I was a tad hasty to judge it unworthy of a more thorough perusal. I can fix that.

future Pi platforms may abandon ARM altogether,

With the CPU world seemingly embracing ARM and CISC seeing a withering future in the comsumer PC market, what, pray tell, could be its successor?

I did preface this post with a prediction that I would expose my inexperience. I realize now that I have revealed my lack of exposure to the Pi Foundation and RiscOS.

Nevertheless, it is no reason to stop trying. I believe

It’s awfully tough to get me to quit something I believe in!
Thank you again,
Warm regards,

With the CPU world seemingly embracing ARM and CISC seeing a withering future in the comsumer PC market, what, pray tell, could be its successor?

RISC-V (aka ARM’s biggest cockup).

The story is that UC Berkeley wanted some access to ARM’s processor designs in order to help teach the students about how processors are designed with a modern real world example. ARM refused (because of their licencing model, I would imagine). The boffins at UCB didn’t take this lying down, their response was to come up with RISC-V. And, well, that may well be the competition for ARM, and clearly it had them rattled given https://www.extremetech.com/computing/273236-arm-kills-its-risc-v-fud-website-after-staff-revolt (article from 2018, but still).

As Rick says, RISC-V doesn’t have any licence/fees associated with it, and has already been used commercially in many embedded designs that would seem like ideal ARM candidates (and have been, historically). For example, new HDD / SSD controllers from the big players are RISC-V based, and there are router and other consumer electronics designs that are RISC-V also. Indeed, I think Ebon mentioned RISC-V in the interview I referenced.

At the moment, RISC-V remains in the same place ARM was about 10-15 years ago – lacking high performance, high clock designs. However, there is considerable interest in breaking the ARM monopoly, especially from the likes of China etc. Whilst I don’t think ARM is truly in danger (at least, not in the immediate future, Nvidia meddling excepted), it is not hard to imagine a world where mass-produced royalty-free RISC-V designs are commonplace. And for a device like a Pi, every saving is helpful. Indeed, when I first read of the Pi Pico, I noted that it represented the Foundation’s first attempt at producing their own silicon. Make of that what you will!

To end on a good note, though, Raspberry is not the only fruit, and there are plenty more ARM-based designs and products out there, so I think a diverse RISC OS will be a healthy one.

RISC-V (aka ARM’s biggest cockup).

Enjoyed the article. Though I am a proponent of ‘Open Source’, it is still a strange and mostly misunderstood business model to me. It doesn’t fit 100% here or there but, it certainly works.
I don’t see the advent of RISC-V as a reason to abandon confidence in either ARM or CISC for the foreseeable future. FPGA is another similar ‘threat’ although on a much smaller scale perhaps. Intel is in dire straights due more to poor management than a failure to predict what is now the past.

To end on a good note, though, Raspberry is not the only fruit, and there are plenty more ARM-based designs and products out there, so I think a diverse RISC OS will be a healthy one.

Looking forward into technology, I’m very often seeing elements that have come from the past. It’s more than a mere ponderance when I remind futurists that ‘the past has its place in the future’. This is true of both hardware and software.
Linux is currently on the path of ‘bloat’ requiring progressively more clock cycles to do the work of yesteryear. Conversely, OS’s like RiscOS, that remain consistent in their efficiency model, benefit most from new and improved hardware.

While I have opinions, that I loosely hang on to, if they had real value I wouldn’t be the follower or the poorman that I am.

I think we also need to remember that, while Eben Upton had a BBC Micro, he didn’t have a RISC OS machine, having moved to an Amiga 600.